Episode 3. Deciding Versus Sliding: Creating Intentionality in Marriage
Join us on this week’s episode of Marriage IQ a we dive into the concept of intentionality in relationships. We share our personal experiences and insights, weaving practical strategies and relatable anecdotes throughout the episode. Heidi draws parallels between following a recipe and building a house to emphasize the importance of intentional planning and communication in marriage, while Scott shares his journey of maintaining intentionality during tough times, offering valuable lessons in personal growth and goal-setting.
Our discussion also touches on the significance of being intentional in couples' relationships, highlighting the impact on intimacy, financial management, and everyday decision-making. By tuning in, you'll gain practical guidance on enhancing communication, goal-setting, and maintaining a balance between individual and marital priorities.
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Welcome to Marriage IQ, the podcast for the intelligent spouse. I'm Dr. Heidi Hastings. And I'm Dr. Heidi Hastings. We are two doctors, two researchers, two spouses, two lovers, and two incredibly different human beings coming together for one purpose, to transform the stinky parts of your marriage into scintillating ones, using intelligence mixed with a little fun. Hello, all you intelligent lovers.00:00:31
Doctor Hastings here. Hello. Doctor Hastings here as well. Welcome back to another scintillating episode of Marriage IQ. I've got a question for you.00:00:42
All right, so we talked about this on the last podcast. What comes first, the chicken or the egg? Oh, that's so hard. Now you're asking yourselves, what on earth does this question have to do with marriage? Yeah, that's exactly what I'm wondering.00:00:56
But, ah, the intelligent spouse knows that sometimes we have to reach out, I mean, really reach out, sometimes really far with our minds in order to bring about order from chaos. Are you saying you're the intelligent spouse? I'm saying that the intelligent spouse is all of us. I'm trying to become the intelligent spouse. You're right.00:01:19
We do. We do have to go a little bit more deeply. You're like, what on earth is. Why are you putting in this here, Bob? There's a reason.00:01:25
I'm getting to it. Okay, let's hear it. So, okay, so the chicken or the egg? Right? Like, what came first?00:01:31
So, the chicken might be a scintillating marriage comes about by following our hearts as husband and wife and investing in things that we both enjoy doing together in a mutually satisfying way. And by so doing, we become a better individual over time. Okay. And the egg might be a scintillating marriage comes about by doing a progressive strategy of self help principles that kind of stack one on each other over time, leading to growth and change and meeting and thus creating a better marriage over time. Okay, so that's kind of like my sister saying we have a corporate marriage.00:02:11
Oh, your sister said that? Yeah. Because we have so many intentional things built into our marriage. Okay, so the thing is, my point is, don't get caught up in this. Right?00:02:24
Like, some people say, well, you have to do this and then this and then this and then this, you know, in a progressive, which is, this is a very good, good way of doing it. And that's kind of what we're doing. We're setting four foundational principles. Right. And that is a really good way to go, but it's not the only way to go.00:02:39
The thing is, it incorporates everything. Okay, so you're saying if I understand you. Right. We do a lot of things, intentionally plan, prepare, and then we have other things that happen organically. That's true.00:02:53
Yeah, that's part of it. Okay. And also, like, which way do I go? Do I start individually first or marriage first? You know, and then move to the other?00:03:03
Okay. I think that ultimately we do go into marriage as individuals. So I think we've really hit hard on working on our individual growth. But as a married couple, we need to understand, too, that this can all be applied to a marriage situation, to spouses. So I have a quiz here for you.00:03:27
The intelligent spouse, what do you prefer? Happiness or meaning? Both growth or wealth? Both. Knowledge or experience?00:03:36
Mmm. Both. Chicken or the egg? Probably eggs. Okay.00:03:43
Not a huge chicken fan. All right. So the point is, it doesn't. It doesn't. That part doesn't matter that we answer it.00:03:50
The part that matters is that we approach from a very holistic point of view. So go with gusto either way. And maybe this is another good place to find balance. Yeah, that's a great point. So, like, in order to be an intelligent spouse, we need to be comfortable with talking to ourselves.00:04:11
I see you do that a lot. Yeah, I have. I don't do that. Really profound conversations with myself. I don't know if I should check in with a psychiatrist or.00:04:20
But I don't think it's weird. I think we have to, like, it's fundamental to find out who am I? I gotta have this conversation whether out loud or in our head, right? That's right. Okay.00:04:31
If it's out loud, make sure no one's around you. Or just pretend like you're driving and talking out loud to yourself. Maybe people will just think that you're talking on your cell phone. Yeah. Just pretend like you're on a headset or something.00:04:43
All right. Last time we did find a little bit more about ourselves and creating and starting to create an identity. Now we're going to use that to become more of who we want to be and to become more intentional. So, you know, you want to start where you are today. There are really some good resources out there.00:05:03
I know there's a. There is a good book I read recently called Atomic Habits, where there are goals, set goals, that you chop up small, simple, daily goals to help keep you motivated. Now, some people say, well, that's a checklist. I don't. That doesn't.00:05:20
That doesn't create any mean well, no, no, no. Let's back up. Yes, it does. It's there for those moments when you've lost that meaning. And you need something to hold onto.00:05:29
Cause it happens every single day. Maybe not every day. It does to me. But I mean, like, yeah, it's there. It serves a purpose, keeps us from, at the end of the day, saying, oh, my gosh, what did I even do today?00:05:42
Right, right. So let's not be hasty to put checklists and goals into one corner or the other. Like, let's balance that out, right? And say, yeah, they're necessary. We all need checklists, every one of us.00:05:57
We need goals. We need personal goals to motivate us and to bring us more into the person we want to be. And I think included with that, we need to have a vision of what we want, what the end goal is. Right. If we're just making goals without having any kind of a vision of what we're striving towards in the long run, one 3510 years down the road or even longer.00:06:23
Yep. Then those goals aren't really tied to anything. Yep. That's true. And that's something definitely we could spend a lot of time on.00:06:29
We'll talk about that. Another podcast. Yeah. So today, I'm just. I'm talking kind of like, what am I doing today?00:06:35
And, you know, I wouldn't have known any of this stuff, to be honest, if I hadn't had a personal, really severe crisis in my own life. We talked about crises last time, but what was your crises? Well, you know, I'm so. I'm a crisis. Yeah.00:06:50
Medical physician. We lived in Arizona. We had a thriving practice in Arizona, and we decided to move to Texas. And we love very much. We do.00:07:00
But it forced me into a critical financial situation. I mean, it changed me from the inside out. I thought we were going to lose everything. Right? And that's a business.00:07:11
Very, very sobering thought. And as a guy, as a man, where it's hardwired in me to provide for my family. That's one of your values. It was crushing. It fundamentally changed how I looked at life.00:07:25
This trial forced me to look at life differently. So I started bombarding myself with self help books. Thank you. To audible. Audible.00:07:35
I'd listen while I'm in the car running. It just. It's been awesome, you know? And I'm kind of an organizational geek anyway. I like to have everything kind of written out.00:07:45
So I started making these daily goals. I typed them up and plastered them in my calendar book that I carry around with me everywhere. Yes, I have an iPhone, but it's just for me. I like seeing stuff, and if I do. I review them every day, every morning.00:08:01
So some people might say, hey, doctor Hastings, what are some of your personal daily goals? I'm going to tell you, one of my daily goals is out of bed by 640. Out of bed, start meditation. 645. And I actually have, I put timers on my phone.00:08:15
Yes. He has alarms that go off every five to ten minutes all morning long. Yeah, well, it keeps me on tack because I have to be at work by 830. That has to happen. And then I have some other apps I work on.00:08:29
And then I review my daily goals. Yes. One of my daily goals is to review my daily goals. I know that's really mind boggling, but it helps me keep at that in my front of mind. It helps me stay intentional during the day, even when I'm not thinking about it.00:08:46
Cause I reviewed it that morning. Right. And then I review my personal affirmations. That helps me remember who I am, what we talked about last time, and maybe we can talk about more about these affirmations later. Right.00:08:59
But those are just some of the things that I've done. And I'll have to say, there is an app that I use every single day, and it's called strides. I've looked at a lot of apps and for some reason I love this one because it's very practical. It has, you know, your daily goals. Check, check, check.00:09:16
Did I do this? It gives you an average. Okay, here's what you're doing. You know, today, this week, last month, last year, and you get to compare and contrast, and it sends you reminders and, you know, as a, as a, as a data geek, you know, I. Hannah, that's, that's real power when you can see improvement over time, right?00:09:36
Like, it changes who I am. And so I highly recommend, if it's not, if you guys, if you don't like strides, you know, use another one. But I love it because it's what. Exactly what I need. I think you ended up getting it, too, because I was so excited about it.00:09:52
And so now we're both on strides. I have to say, you've been a real inspiration to me, watching this progression, watching this development in you, helping you see more clearly who you are. And so as we talk about these things, I've picked up a lot of your same. I don't do the alarms every five minutes in the morning, but I work from home and don't have to be out at the same time you do. So.00:10:13
But it's been a real inspiration. And I also have to say, you've dropped a lot of names of companies, organization, apps, books. We don't make money from those. This is just, we have zero kickback interest. We just want to let you know some of the things that have worked best for us.00:10:34
And if you're interested, go ahead and try them. If you have other ideas, we would love to hear back from you as our listeners about what works well for you. So you've done a great job of talking about some personal intentionality. Is it okay if I shift just a little bit and we talk about couple intentionality here? Let's shift.00:10:51
Okay. I was thinking about this, and I really see it as an analogy of following a recipe or building a house. They're both similar in some ways. In both, we start with a plan. The stakes for creating a recipe, for following a recipe are pretty low.00:11:10
So low levels of intentionality can really be tolerated. Maybe I don't measure. Maybe I look at what the ingredients are, and then I just throw some in. Throw some. You know, maybe I'm not exact about my measurements, and I may choose to throw some things in, substitute some things, or throw other things out.00:11:28
But when people are building a house like we've done in the past, they spend months or even years, sometimes intentionally communicating about each choice, from what kind of a foundation to have to what brand of windows, what kind of faucets, what toilet paper holders, from the big to the small. And as you look at a house, obviously its value is significantly more than a batch of cookies or something. But marriage, in our opinion, is the most valuable of all relationships and priorities. Even above work, kids, which I know some people may disagree on that, but we believe marriage even is a higher priority than children because that's what gives them a solid foundation. It's more important than friends or religious involvement or.00:12:18
Wait, wait, wait, wait. So what you're saying is, you're saying to put your spouse above all those other people, even your kids? Yes. And when I say religious involvement, I don't mean above God. I think, in my opinion, God, spouse, and me are all working together.00:12:35
But, yeah, I think kids leave when they're 18 or 19 years old, typically. And if they've become a priority, then we may not have much of a relationship at that point. And yet, couples rarely invest the time and effort into envisioning, planning, and communicating about what they want in a marriage, what a marriage is going to be like. So communicating is key to couple intentionality in my mind. So in marriage, each choice that we make, whether conscious or unconscious, I see kind of as a brick, we're building, building, building this marriage brick by brick.00:13:12
And we may have a plan and do it very intentionally, or we may just start putting one brick here, one brick there, hoping eventually they connect. Hoping eventually they build something. If we are really communicating intentionally and setting goals, we may end up with a beautiful marriage, a beautiful structure. If we don't, we may find that we've actually built something that puts us in bondage that we feel like we can't get out of, that we don't have any choice in that is when a lot of marital distress starts to happen. If we are very intentional, it builds commitment and we're able to accomplish our goals and even thrive.00:13:51
So have you seen this happening, Scott, with, with couples where they just slide? Where they. Or where they build something so haphazardly that it ends up captivating them? You know, putting them in bondage or in a place that they don't want to be? A relationship they don't want to be.00:14:08
Yeah. You know, it's an interesting thought. You talk about brick by brick. You know, it is interesting. It is a brick, you know, brick by brick, creating a strong house.00:14:20
But that strong house is built on years of being flexible with each other. Intentional and flexible. Yeah. So, I mean, it is interesting, though, that that house is still built and is very strong, but it's built by daily flexibility. And when you're flexible, you know who you are.00:14:42
Right. When you're inflexible, it's like you don't know who you are. Right. You're not. You're not, but you don't have the capacity to create that.00:14:50
That flexibility because you've never thought about boundaries, you know? So. So are you saying it's when you don't know who you are and so you're inflexible and you don't have a grasp on your identity, that you're haphazardly building a marriage that then puts you in bondage. Right. Exactly.00:15:08
I like that. It's just interesting. That brics. It very much is brick. It very much is very strong, and yet at the same time, it's flexible.00:15:16
So. So kind of like building a house that's more earthquake proof, that it can spray, that it can work with a very. Yes. And that you can put in change orders sometimes, like when building a house. Oh, that didn't turn out like I wanted or my.00:15:30
My idea for what I want has changed a little bit. So we're going to put in a change order to do something a little differently. Yeah. Okay. I love it.00:15:37
That's really great. I really love research by doctor Scott Stanley on marital relationships. And a phrase that he uses in his research and in marriage relationship education courses is decide, don't slide. And I love, I think of that all the time. It's like building a house with a brick here and a brick there, versus being really intentional and having a plan and putting things in.00:16:02
And we can prevent a lot of marital distress by deciding how it's going to be. So here are a few examples that he's used in his research. Moving in together rather than getting married and just seeing how it goes. That's just slide. Let's just slide.00:16:18
Let's see how this goes. And he says that rarely works. And besides that, it puts us in bondage when we're tied to a lease or a mortgage without a commitment. And then partway through the lease, we're like, oh, this isn't working. We have shared bills, maybe even a shared pet, possibly even a shared child.00:16:36
That's a lot at stake that we feel like we have to stay even when we see that that relationship isn't good. Another one, prioritizing work or parenthood over marriage. And this isn't one of his, this is just one I thought of. If we just slide, we start to feel disconnected as spouses. We might end up feeling more like roommates than we feel like deep connection infidelity may happen if work is more important to us than our marriage.00:17:02
So I'm just sitting here thinking like, okay, decide, don't slide. I like it. That's catchy. Here's where maybe some problems come up. Because when I'm deciding, which I completely, wholeheartedly agree with, I think I should decide don't slide.00:17:20
I'm not always in that state of mind. I decide when I'm being intentional. Like every morning. Every morning I'm close, checking off my goals, I'm doing my things, I'm deciding by showing up. But not every moment is going to be that way, right?00:17:37
Like for instance, if I get home late from work, I'm really tired, my brain's fried, the kids are fighting. I mean, this was not an unusual occurrence in our household. Why not? Like, it's really hard to think about all this when all this is happening, especially when I'm tired and I'm hungry and my brain is totally shot from work. And that is where, I think that is where some of these things creep in between two people in a marriage is like, yeah, we know about this, Doctor Hayes.00:18:14
We know. Yes, I want to decide this, but yet our marriage is still stinky. Like we still. We're just roommates, but we know this cerebrally, cognitively. Right.00:18:27
So we're trying to take this great research and now really apply it in like everyday situation. So can I throw one out for you? Go ahead. Can you tell me how you can balance the stress, the chaos of home, work, whatever, with being intentional? How about intersexual relationships?00:18:48
Oh, okay, that's out in left field. Okay, so what do you mean? How do we be intentional about that? Oh, I like it. I know where you're going.00:18:59
Okay. Yeah. Scheduled sex. Yeah. Doctor John Gottman, probably the foremost relationship researcher, really is a big proponent of scheduled sex.00:19:11
So tell me some more. So what you're saying here, doctor Hastings, is that, that we should tell our listeners to schedule their sex. If you don't decide you're gonna slide, pretty soon you're gonna find out. That's been two months since you've had sex. That takes all the spontaneity out of it.00:19:28
It's so unromantic. Well, if we just slide and we don't decide, we may find out. It's been two months since we've had sex and I feel so disconnected from you, I don't even know who you are anymore. So what you're saying then is I think we need to have a combination of both. Okay, so what you're saying is I'm coming home.00:19:46
Let's go back to that situation. Okay. I'm coming home and my brain's fried, the kids are fighting, blah, blah. You know, I'm tired, I'm hungry. And we have, you know, we have this situation where I could slide.00:20:00
So what do you think? Well, I don't know. I mean, I can tell you from personal experience that sometimes it is hard to wrap my head around it, because I'm not thinking about it at all. I'm thinking about how tired I am. But I'm here to tell you that this principle works.00:20:18
Like, these guys aren't stupid, they know what they're doing. And when we schedule things like sex, this is just one thing to schedule. I mean, there's a whole lot of. Whole host of other things. This is one example.00:20:32
It then allows us to start preparing for it mentally, because we know it's on the calendar, it's happening, right? And for women, when we decide in our head that we're going to do something, it takes a few minutes, but the desire follows after. It might not be there initially, but when we make that decision, and we put our attention towards that scheduled sex. Then the desire follows, and it can be really beautiful. Let me give you another quick scenario.00:21:04
Maybe you can do this one really quickly. Money management decide, don't slide versus. I'm stressed. I don't have time. You want me to take that or.00:21:12
Yep. Oh, okay. So, doctor Hastings. Doctor. So, yeah, money's, like, one of the biggest reasons for divorce, right?00:21:21
Right. Again, we have it as one of our goals. I kid you not. I check it off every week that we need to budget together. We go over the review our budget every week.00:21:30
We use an app. It used to be mint, but they went away. We use Monarch now, but every week we go through our budget. This is exactly what we've got. Well, maybe not exactly, but this is what we have for the remainder of the month.00:21:44
Again, we're looking at it objectively, and we're planning it. It's being scheduled. There are far fewer disagreements because there are far fewer misunderstandings. Right. When we're intentional.00:21:56
Exactly. So if we don't want to do that, it may end up to excessive debt. If we are sliding excessive debt, conflict over money, resentment, bankruptcy. But how do we balance that with. I'm tired.00:22:08
I don't have time. This is just one more thing. Well, let's go back to those checklists. You know, people. The checklists that people, you know, are say, oh, man, those aren't.00:22:20
Those don't work. They're. Well, yeah, they do. Right now they do. Because now you're kind of forcing yourself into doing something, even if you don't want to do it for this moment, to get it done.00:22:32
Even if you just show up and do it, that's what counts. That's great. And it may not be much for today, but you're doing it, and that makes all the difference. Agreed. And we've really seen that in our own lives.00:22:44
So in other episodes, we're going to delve into other parts of intentionality, like couples counsels, one of our very favorite topics, and some other really cool ideas. But let's summarize what we've learned for today, and maybe they can pick. Maybe our listeners can pick one or two or even three elements of decide don't slide. Of intentionality from a personal or a couple perspective that they can focus on this week. So would you like to summarize those?00:23:15
We talked about personal intentionality. That includes making personal goals and helping. You know, there are apps that can help you keep on those goals every day, setting reminders in your phone. You know, that's what I do. You know, couples intentionality, like intentionally setting goals, calendar dates for certain things, like sex, for going over finances, you know, weekly dates.00:23:39
It's in the calendar. It's happening. We talked about, you know, decide it, don't slide, and what that means on a practical, day to day basis, even when we're not feeling great, you know, just sometimes all we do is simply show up and we do it. But that does make a big difference. We'd love to have you join us next week as we explore the third foundational cornerstone of an intelligent marriage.00:24:06
Insight. And we love this one, too. All right, so rate our podcast wherever you listen. Tell others what you liked about it and share it. Text a link to anyone you think might enjoy hearing about becoming an intelligent spouse.00:24:22
So rate it, review it, and share it. And here's a question to kind of keep you hanging for next week. What are the three best words you can say to your spouse? And it's not what you think. Ooh, can't wait to hear that one.00:24:36
Okay, until next time, everyone. We'll see you then. Bye.
