Episode 132: 6 Lessons From 30 Years of Marriage That Actually Work
30 Years of Marriage Taught Us This
Laugh More, Turn Toward Each Other, and Never Stop Growing
Thirty years ago, we stood at the beginning of a life we could never have fully imagined.
We were young. In love. Hopeful. Completely unaware of how much life could stretch us.
We didn’t know about the sleepless nights, the financial stress, the parenting disagreements, the moves across states, the tears, the rebuilding, the moments we would question ourselves—or the moments we would laugh so hard we couldn’t breathe.
And now here we are.
Thirty years in.
Still learning.
Still growing.
Still turning toward each other.
Recently, we sat down together to reflect on what has actually helped our marriage survive—and more than survive—become deeper, richer, and more alive over time.
Not the cliché answers. Not “just communicate better.”
The real things.
The little things.
The things that carried us through three decades together.
1. Laughing Changes Everything
One of the first things Scott ever said to me was:
“I promise to make you laugh every day.”
And honestly? He still does.
Not perfectly. Not constantly. But enough that laughter has become part of the emotional glue of our marriage.
Because laughter softens things.
It interrupts tension.
It diffuses defensiveness.
It reminds you that you actually like each other.
There have been so many moments over the years where we were frustrated, stressed, overwhelmed, or hurt—and one small joke shifted the atmosphere just enough for us to reconnect.
Marriage can get heavy.
Jobs. Bills. Parenting. Illness. Exhaustion. Routine.
Sometimes laughter is what helps you breathe again.
And maybe that’s why research shows people who laugh more tend to live longer.
Laughter creates life.
2. Your Differences Are Not the Problem
For a long time, we treated our differences like obstacles.
If one of us saw something differently, someone had to be wrong.
Usually, if we’re being honest, I thought it was him.
But over time, we realized something important:
Our differences are actually our superpower.
We bring different strengths, perspectives, personalities, and experiences into our marriage. And instead of weakening us, those differences make us stronger.
Parenting taught us this better than anything else.
I tended to lean nurturing and emotionally connective. Scott leaned more toward resilience and tough love. Early on, we often thought the other person’s approach was flawed.
But our children needed both.
They needed softness.
And structure.
Listening.
And accountability.
What once felt like conflict eventually became balance.
Marriage gets healthier when you stop trying to make your spouse become you.
3. Sexual Intimacy Matters More Than We Admit
After 30 years, one truth we’ve learned is this:
Sexual intimacy is not a side issue in marriage.
It matters.
Not because perfection matters. Not because frequency is the measure of love. But because physical intimacy has a unique way of reconnecting a couple emotionally.
Sometimes, when communication feels stuck and tension lingers, intimacy becomes a reset button.
Not avoidance.
Not manipulation.
Not pressure.
But reconnection.
A reminder that beneath the frustration is still friendship, attraction, tenderness, and love.
We’ve spent years teaching that emotional intimacy supports sexual intimacy—and we still believe that deeply. But we’ve also learned it can work the other way too.
Sometimes closeness creates closeness.
And in long marriages, that matters.
4. Agency Changes Everything
One of the most powerful lessons I’ve learned is the importance of agency.
Especially as a woman raised in a culture where many women were taught to sacrifice themselves automatically.
I learned there’s a huge difference between doing something because you “have to” and doing something because you choose to.
I chose to stay home with our children.
I chose to support Scott through medical school.
I chose to work in our practice.
I chose to go back to graduate school later in life.
And those choices mattered.
Because when we operate only from duty, resentment quietly grows underneath the surface.
But when we feel ownership over our lives, we show up with energy instead of bitterness.
Marriage works better when both people are allowed to fully exist.
Not as extensions of each other.
But as whole people choosing each other over and over again.
5. Turn Toward Each Other—Especially When It’s Hard
This may be the biggest lesson of all.
When hard things happen—and they will—you have a choice:
Turn away from each other.
Or turn toward each other.
Some of the hardest years of our marriage came during a major move from Arizona to Texas. Financial uncertainty. Professional stress. Children struggling deeply. Mental health challenges. Feeling like everything familiar had disappeared.
Nothing felt stable.
Except us.
We walked around lakes late at night trying to figure out what to do with our lives. We questioned ourselves constantly. But even in the uncertainty, we kept coming back to the same thing:
You are my safe place.
That mindset changes everything.
When you believe your spouse is fundamentally for you, conflict feels less threatening. You stop seeing each other as enemies and start acting like teammates again.
And over time, those small moments of turning toward each other add up.
One degree closer every day becomes intimacy after 30 years.
6. Fun Is Not Optional
Somewhere between careers, parenting, responsibilities, and routines, many couples stop having fun.
We did too, at times.
Life became efficient. Predictable. Structured.
But we’ve learned recently that novelty breathes life back into marriage.
Traveling together. Trying new things. Hiking mountains. Riding bikes through tulip fields in the Netherlands. Taking risks. Breaking routines.
One of our favorite memories was climbing Mount Timpanogos in Utah together after a difficult season in life. It was exhausting. We got lost. Ran out of water. Scott struggled to breathe after COVID. My knees were screaming on the way down.
But we did it together.
And somehow, that mountain became symbolic of our marriage itself:
Hard. Beautiful. Worth it.
Marriage Is Not a Destination
Thirty years in, we know this now:
Marriage is not something you arrive at.
It’s something you build.
Through laughter.
Through intimacy.
Through agency.
Through turning toward each other.
Through fun.
Through choosing each other again and again.
And maybe that’s the real secret.
Not perfection.
Just two imperfect people continuing to say:
“I’m still here.”
“I still choose you.”
“And I still want to grow together.”
-
0:00
Celebrating 30 Years: Our 6 Marriage Lessons
Howdy, are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
0:10
Speaker 2
Isn't that the truth?
0:18
Speaker 1
Maybe I should get my Xanax.
I don't have Xanax.
0:23
Speaker 2
By the way.
0:23
Speaker 1
I don't have Xanax.
0:26
Speaker 2
You're funny.
You still make me laugh.
If nothing else, we can look back in 10 years and get a tickle.
0:33
Speaker 1
Right.
Welcome to Marriage IQ, the podcast helping you become an intelligent spouse.
0:40
Speaker 2
I'm Heidi Hastings.
0:41
Speaker 1
And I'm Scott Hastings.
0:44
Speaker 2
I'm Heidi.
0:46
Speaker 1
I'm Scott.
0:47
Speaker 2
And we've been married 30 years this week.
0:52
Speaker 1
Wow, that's crazy.
0:55
Speaker 2
And as marriage experts, we wanted to share with you some of the most important things that we've learned in 30 years.
1:05
Speaker 1
So buckle up.
If I remember correctly, my love, you said come up with three things that's made our marriage more successful.
Scintillating over 30 years.
So I have my 3 and you have your three.
1:22
Speaker 2
And we haven't shared with each other what they are.
1:24
Speaker 1
So we're going to both find out right now.
All right.
1:26
Speaker 2
So.
1:27
Speaker 1
Who's first?
1:28
Speaker 2
Rock, paper, scissors.
1:32
Speaker 1
All right, so that means you go first.
1:35
Speaker 2
That means I get to say who goes first.
It's your turn.
1:41
Speaker 1
So I think number one, well, first of all, all the cliche answers are important, like connection, communication, intimacy, honesty, trust, all that's important.
1:56
But I want to dig deeper because not everyone knows how to communicate, right?
And so I wanted to pick some specific concrete things over the 30 years that I think really helped push us from ho hum to great.
2:13
The Power of Laughter in a Lasting Marriage
OK, so #1 laugh.
2:20
Speaker 2
That's great, you starting out with that.
That's one of the very first things I loved about you, was that you made me laugh.
Do you remember when you proposed?
2:28
Speaker 1
Yes.
What did you say?
I said I promise to make you laugh every day.
And you laughed every day for about 7 months, no more.
And then you got pregnant.
2:39
Speaker 2
It was also till you started Med school.
OK, then it was pretty hard to laugh because I didn't see you for maybe once every three days.
2:47
Speaker 1
So the reason why laughing is important is they can take a otherwise tense situation, communication and just spin it just a little bit so that we just lighten it up and it's not so bad, It's not so rough, it's not so heavy.
3:04
And so I really think that laughing is one of those great things that can take any situation and make it better.
In fact, there's some medical studies on laughing and longevity.
People who are to laugh a lot tend to live longer than those who don't.
3:23
Speaker 2
Can you think of any times in our marriage where laughter made a difference?
3:30
Speaker 1
Well, not one specific episode, it's just sprinkled here and there all throughout.
And the times that we don't laugh, it's just a lot heavier times we do laugh and we find some silver lining out of the situation, it tends to just loosen up and we tend to get to resolve things just that much faster.
3:53
Speaker 2
I would say you're the funny guy in our relationship and I laugh at you.
4:01
Speaker 1
Well, but there are times when you were hilarious.
I don't know when those times are coming.
4:06
Speaker 2
It just Zing little sparks some intelligent humor.
4:12
Speaker 1
It's random, but I enjoy it.
I just thought, whoa, hold everything.
Let's enjoy this right now.
All right, your turn.
4:22
How Our Differences Became Relationship Superpowers
All right.
I think one of the things I learned maybe 1520 years ago is that our differences are actually superpowers, not problems.
So I think for the first part of our marriage I felt like because you didn't see things the way that I saw things, something was wrong with you or something was wrong with me.
4:47
But I usually thought something was wrong with you.
4:49
Speaker 1
Yeah, let's be honest, there's a lot wrong with me.
4:54
Speaker 2
There's not.
That was actually something that was wrong with me to perceive it that way.
But eventually I started to figure out, wait a second, this is a superpower because you've got your perspective, you've got your life experiences, you have your talents, you have your skills, you have your strengths.
5:15
Then I have mine.
A lot of them are different than yours.
I guess we definitely have some crossover and that gives us twice the power as a couple as just being the same.
5:28
Speaker 1
We're like Wonder Twins, the old cartoon, you know, Wonder Twins power activate.
5:35
Speaker 2
Yeah, so one of the biggest ways I think that showed up for me was in parenting when our kids were at home.
I thought that your way of parenting was way too harsh.
And I thought that my loving reasoning parenting was the better way.
5:52
And I assumed, and I don't want to assume without asking you, that you might have thought, that your way of parenting was right and mine was wrong.
Am I right?
6:02
Speaker 1
Yes, I thought that my way made more sense to me and your way made more sense to you about how to parents.
6:11
Speaker 2
But as we've gone along and our kids are grown and out of the house, I think we've come to realize that they did need nurturing and a lot of love, a lot of listening, a lot of talking.
And they needed some of that top love, too.
6:28
That helped them pull up by the bootstraps and be resilient.
6:32
Speaker 1
Yeah.
So let me see if I can sum this up.
Then you're #1 is perspective, right?
We each come to the relationship with our own perspective, and each one has its own merits, right?
6:45
Speaker 2
Yep, that's pretty much it.
6:47
Sexual Intimacy as a Relationship Reset Button
OK, all right, so #2 for me is sexual intimacy.
6:54
Speaker 2
OK, what did you learn about sexual intimacy?
6:57
Speaker 1
Well, you know, we've taught for so long that the sex part is the end, right?
So we need to make sure we establish emotional intimacy and social intimacy, recreational intimacy, all these other types of intimacy before we get to the sexual intimacy.
7:18
And I think we teach that we agree with that.
We think that is the proper course for a lot of couples.
But at the same time, sometimes it goes the other way.
And sometimes when you're just stuck in a rut because I just think about what if you were just a roommate?
7:35
What if I had a roommate for 30 years and we had all the other things like a marriage except the sex?
I would have a real problem with everything.
It's like pushing a hard reset on that relationship.
Sometimes that's what you need.
7:50
I don't think it's wrong to acknowledge that that's a big deal in any relationship that's going to last and have a lasting quality, a scintillating quality to it.
It's just is.
It's something that we can learn a lot about and spend the rest of our lives learning about that whole love making process.
8:12
And for me, a slexless marriage is one that's not growing or scintillating and sex that is loving and enjoyed by both.
There has to be rules set up, but once those are set up.
8:26
Speaker 2
What do you mean rules?
8:27
Speaker 1
Rules that don't cross boundaries and respect each other and their space.
And once that is firmly established and followed, it can be amazing, can be an amazing experience that can turn literally arguments, something that's disagree on the conflict into something that's very beautiful.
8:49
I think there have been sometimes when we've had some arguments and we kind of went through the tricks that we had about solving it from a communication standpoint, and we decided to just have sex instead.
9:05
And that's just completely resolved that situation to the point where we could start over and start communicating again from just a closer starting point instead of being further away.
9:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's not always the answer either.
9:21
Speaker 1
No, it's not always the answer, but I'm saying don't prematurely cut it off as one option if you're finding yourself at odds with each other.
All right, your turn.
9:33
The Power of Personal Agency in Marriage
All right, so I think the second love lesson that I learned is that I have agency and it's important for me to not make choices because of culture or because of expectations.
9:53
My girlfriend in an era where women were seen as less than men.
I just remember my mom would sign her name Missus, and then my dad's first name and then her married last name and there wasn't a lot of agency.
10:13
If I do things from my own choice, coming into this marriage with my own choice on a lot of things instead of from duty, then the marriage comes alive and I feel more alive.
But if I do things out of this is just the way it is and I don't have a choice, then I can get more resentful and burned out.
10:35
For example, I chose to stay home with our family.
I chose to be in your medical practice with you and to support you in that.
I chose to support you through medical school.
And so I think to put it simply, I've learned the power and the value of agency.
10:55
And if it's something that's important to you, and maybe it's not as important to me, but what I choose is to prioritize something that's important to you because you're important to me, then I can really get on board and love that.
11:11
Speaker 1
Do you have an example?
11:12
Speaker 2
I can think of examples of when you've done that really well.
When I chose to go back to Graduate School and I brought that to you, I think you were really disappointed and really hesitant because of the role that I was carrying in our medical practice.
11:32
And you knew that was going to change things.
But once you realize that it was important to me and you were like, OK, let's do this.
Then it really allowed me to fly with meeting Michaels and Dreams too.
11:51
Speaker 1
So your desires became my desires, right?
11:55
Speaker 2
Right.
But if you're like, I'm just doing it.
I don't have a choice.
She gets to do what she wants to do.
Yeah, Then you're going to resent me.
I feel like over 30 years we have really come to honor our own individual selves more, to be more differentiated, meaning we have different opinions on things, but we're much, much better at supporting each other in making our dreams come true.
12:22
Speaker 1
OK, I like that.
So for you perspective an agency and mine so far is laughing and sex.
12:31
Speaker 2
OK, as you can see, one of us is the fun guy and one of us is a little too responsible.
12:40
Turning Toward Each Other in Difficult Times
But when they get together, it's like Madrid #3 There's so many things I could say, but I think ultimately it is so important when bad things happen and they will and they do, Misunderstandings happen between each other.
12:57
If we learn to just turn toward each other instead of a way and just have the automatic that mindset of you are fundamentally a good person who cares about me and wants me to succeed and loves me.
13:16
That's the starting point.
Now you might have said something hurtful or or I perceive that you said something hurtful to me.
I have a choice.
I can turn away or I can turn toward and it's a lot easier to turn toward you if I feel like you're on my team, that you love me, that you don't want to leave me, that you are invested in me.
13:44
And I need to just start from that standpoint.
And then I think everything can just be colored a little bit more positively.
I love to look at you with just slightly tinted, rose tinted glasses.
Not totally just slightly tinted.
14:02
I don't want to bamboozle myself or anyone else, but I think it's.
14:06
Speaker 2
Going to live in reality, right?
14:08
Speaker 1
Yeah, I want to live in reality, but it but it's OK to live in reality.
14:11
Speaker 2
To need to when I can.
14:12
Speaker 1
See, everything's a little bit positive about you.
That really makes a difference.
It stacks up over time.
And you know, with couples who don't have that 1° ahead of time, you end up 30 years down the road, really far off.
14:28
However, conversely, 1° at a time toward each other after 30 years is going to be really tight.
14:35
Speaker 2
That's really good and I would agree with that.
We have been better at that at some points more than others, but I think especially more lately, we've made that a goal to really look for the best in each other, expect the best in each other.
14:52
Speaker 1
We are intentional about it.
Yeah, we said we're doing this.
We're going to turn toward each other whenever something comes up.
14:59
Speaker 2
Yeah, I've noticed with some travel lately and some jet lag, sometimes I've slept a little bit longer than I normally would.
But you've stayed in bed there.
And when I wake up, people just give me hugs and.
15:13
Speaker 1
Literally and physically turning toward each other?
Yep.
15:16
Speaker 2
Yes, at the beginning of the day, at the end of the day, and multiple times in between.
15:21
Speaker 1
You like to snuggle, don't you?
Yep, so do I.
That's.
15:25
Speaker 2
Good.
15:26
Embracing Fun & Recapping All Six Lessons
I will say the third thing that I've come to learn, and it's been more a recent thing, is the value of fun.
So in the beginning you talked about laughter, and I think laughter is really, really important, but especially when it's combined with being very intentional about doing things that are fun.
15:47
Scott is very, he loves to laugh.
He loves, loves, loves to laugh, but he's very precise and very regimented in the things he does.
And I've come to learn that sometimes we just need to be very intentional about having variety and having fun and doing things that you haven't done.
16:08
Speaker 1
Before some novelty that's.
16:10
Speaker 2
What really lights up a marriage after 30 years?
16:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, getting out of the rut.
Yeah, I like that.
I agree.
16:20
Speaker 2
I love it, I love it too.
What do you think?
You do love it.
16:23
Speaker 1
Yeah.
It's just it is a little hard to get out of that routine that I know so well.
16:29
Speaker 2
But we all like to be comfortable.
But you know, that's another good point of a lesson that we've learned during our marriage is learning to sit in discomfort is vital to growth.
And marriage really is a laboratory for growth.
16:46
It's not meant to be comfortable all the time.
16:49
Speaker 1
All right, so for you it's all about perspective.
It's having your own agency to choose what you do.
16:58
Speaker 2
And share power with that.
17:00
Speaker 1
Yes, and having fun.
And for me, it's being able to laugh and having sex and just being able to turn toward each other instead of a way when there are issues that arise.
17:16
Navigating Hardest Times and Remembering First Love
So, Scott, when was the first moment that you knew you were in love with me?
17:24
Speaker 1
I remember the first moment I told you I loved you.
It was in your little kitchen, in your apartment, in the basement of your parents house.
And I think sometimes you have to verbalize it in order to feel it, and that's what it did.
17:40
Speaker 2
Oh, you didn't feel it before then?
17:43
Speaker 1
Well, I thought I did, but when I actually heard myself saying it, it changed something within me where it completed that process of falling in love.
I think it was the curing stage of love.
The other part was just the initial stages of love.
18:00
And then I knew, ha, I really am in love with you.
18:04
Speaker 2
I would say the first time I knew I was in love with you was our first date.
Oh, when I heard you play the piano.
18:14
Speaker 1
First date.
18:16
Speaker 2
Yes.
So I went to my office and there was a piano in there, and you played the piano for me, and it touched so deeply in my soul.
I knew I was spin.
I think over time it got deeper, but I knew there was some kind of very, very deep connection between my heart and your soul.
18:37
Speaker 1
OK, well teach all of your boys how to play the piano.
18:41
Speaker 2
And sing.
18:43
Speaker 1
I'm just saying.
18:44
Speaker 2
So what would you say is one of the hardest things that we've been through?
18:48
Speaker 1
Several things.
One of the hardest things, geez, take your pick.
I think the most recent hardest thing was moving from Arizona to Texas and with no job and no money.
19:03
Speaker 2
You wanted to build your own medical practice here.
19:06
Speaker 1
It worked out in the end, but we didn't know that.
19:08
Speaker 2
It was pretty brutal for several years.
19:10
Speaker 1
Many, many nights walking around the lake.
A lot of trauma, I guess, financially with their children.
I mean, it was pretty rough.
Yeah.
I think 2015, 2016 were the hardest years of my life.
So they were rough.
19:25
Speaker 2
How do we keep it together?
19:26
Speaker 1
I just remember those nightly walks around the lake, just turning toward each other because that's all we had.
What else are we going to do?
We had to turn toward each other.
And when we did, we knew there's that safe zone.
That felt good to me because nothing else felt safe in my life.
19:45
Nothing except for you and my family children, it's.
19:49
Speaker 2
Great.
For me, what's been the hardest?
I mean, that same time period really comes up for me a lot as well.
I feel like I'd lost everything in life that was stable, my home that we built and lived in for 10 years, work, a community that we were highly integrated into.
20:13
And some of the most difficult things that you can imagine happen during that same time for you.
I think the financial part was very difficult for me.
It was.
Having a couple of our kids just go through the hardest, hardest times, wondered sometimes if they'd survive it.
20:35
Literally with mental health issues with disabilities that really revolted against change.
And those were so hard, truly made me question who I was.
Everything I thought that I was seemed to kind of dissipate and to be able to rewrite some of those days together and make those decisions together.
21:00
Who are we?
Do we go back?
Do we keep moving forward?
I think in the long run really drew us closer to each other, while it was pretty hard on every part of us, including our marriage along the way.
What is one of your favorite memories for the last 30 years?
21:22
Cherished Memories: Tulip Fields & Mountain Climbs
There's so many favorite memories, probably hundreds, so I'll just pick 1A riding bikes in the Tulip filled.
21:30
Speaker 2
You took lane.
21:32
Speaker 1
I think that we share a lot of things similar and that was a, you know how you just have one of those moments in your life and you're like, oh, I could take a picture of this, but it wouldn't do it justice.
Just click it in your head kind of a moment and remember it.
21:48
Speaker 2
We're in the Netherlands.
Was Mother's Day.
21:52
Speaker 1
She loves tulips.
21:54
Speaker 2
Fields and fields of different colors of tulips.
21:57
Speaker 1
And we just stopped and just looked at everything and took it all in and it was wonderful.
There's a hundred more or more, but that's one.
So yeah.
22:08
Speaker 2
I would say another one for me was you and I decided to climb Mount Timpanocus together and it's very high.
It's a pretty hard hike.
22:20
Speaker 1
Like 14,000.
22:21
Speaker 2
Yeah, I just, I needed to do it for myself, to show myself that I can do really hard things.
22:29
Speaker 1
Yeah.
22:30
Speaker 2
It was after the first year of my PhD and I was considering dropping out and we got up at 4:00 in the morning and flew from Dallas to Provo and got on the trailhead about 10:00 in the morning, which is about four hours.
22:45
Speaker 1
Too.
Yeah, kind of crazy.
22:47
Speaker 2
Everybody's coming down while we were going up.
And it was in August when it was so hot.
And you wanted to do it because it was important to me.
And you'd had COVID not long before.
And we'd get going and then you would be, you know, just really having a hard time breathing that altitude change plus the COVID lungs.
23:09
And so we'd go slow and we'd stop and we get a little snack and then go again.
We've gotten lost on a sheep trail that ended nowhere except thousands of feet down.
And we had little miracles happen, big clouds rolling in that we later found out being on the mountain with big storms is a really bad idea.
23:31
But we never saw one drop of rain, even though we saw running water and people running off the mountain.
We got lost once.
We couldn't find the way up.
We ran out of water because Scott was breathing so hard and we drank everything that we had on the way up.
23:49
But it was such a blessing too.
We ran into some people and we were talking to them and Guy told us that he packed way too much water that day and he.
24:00
Speaker 1
Was very.
24:01
Speaker 2
Happy to unload water on us so we can keep going.
But yeah, at the end you just couldn't breathe anymore.
You couldn't do it anymore.
Which maybe we should have called for a helicopter.
24:12
Speaker 1
I could see the top from where we were and I couldn't do it.
I just couldn't do it.
But I watched.
You climbed to the top.
24:20
Speaker 2
I got to the top and stayed about one minute because I was so worried about you.
24:25
Speaker 1
But you got a picture up there?
We should blow it up.
24:29
Speaker 2
It was really symbolic of we can do hard things together.
Yeah.
So I think that memory of just you walking every step with me and me slowing down when I needed to help you and then coming down the mountain, it was so hard on my knees.
24:49
It was pitch dark.
And you were so good and helpful with me when my knees were in pain.
But wow.
24:58
Speaker 1
And you were very patient with me, with my old man lungs.
You're right there by my side.
Yeah.
I've never been so happy to see a parking lot in my life.
When we found our car.
25:14
Looking Forward to 30 More Years Together
Well, we could probably share a lot of other things that we've learned in 30 years, but I think I just want to let you know how much I love you and how I think the day that I said yes to you was the best decision that I've made.
25:32
Speaker 1
Yeah, this has been a marvelous ride 30 years.
25:37
Speaker 2
I bet we've got.
25:38
Speaker 1
30 more.
I look forward to at least 30 more of this wonderful ride that's just going to keep getting better and better.
