Episode 81. Sexy Marriage Radio Meets Marriage IQ: Dr. Corey Allan on Identity & Intimacy (Part 2)
How Agency Transforms Intimacy
Too many couples believe that intimacy means blending into one another — as if being “one” means never saying no, never holding a separate opinion, and never standing firm in your own desires. But as Dr. Corey Allan reminded us in our recent Marriage IQ conversation, this kind of fusion isn’t intimacy at all.
It’s folding. And folding creates shallow connection, not deep passion.
Why Folding Fails
Picture this: a husband says, “I want to have sex right now.” His wife doesn’t feel like it, but she gives in because it feels easier than voicing her own truth. On the surface, it looks like closeness. Underneath, it’s resentment waiting to happen.
Dr. Allan pointed out that in this scenario both spouses are poorly developed. The wife abandons her agency. The husband settles for bad sex rather than asking, “Why would I want intimacy with someone who isn’t truly present?”
Folding into another person’s identity robs both partners of growth. One loses their voice. The other loses the chance to meet a real, alive, fully engaged spouse.
The Power of Agency
What does healthy intimacy look like instead? It’s rooted in agency.
Agency says: “I’m choosing to be here.”
Agency says: “My yes means something because I could have said no.”
Agency says: “I’m showing up as a whole person, not a shadow.”
When both spouses act with agency, sex becomes more than a physical act. It becomes a place where each person’s identity, desire, and passion can come alive. That’s when intimacy turns into something transformative.
As Corey put it, “Sex is a language — how you do sex is how you do life.” If you fold in the bedroom, chances are you fold in other areas too. If you show up with honesty, presence, and courage, that strength spills into every corner of your marriage.
A Question Worth Asking
Here’s the takeaway: before you give in or check out, pause and ask yourself —
👉 Am I folding, or am I freely choosing?
Your answer could be the difference between routine “duty sex” and a vibrant, connecting experience that makes your marriage stronger.
This is just one of the powerful insights Dr. Corey Allen shared in our interview on Marriage IQ. We also explored what men are afraid of when it comes to truly good sex, why conflict is actually a sign of intimacy, and how to grow in the crucible of marriage.
Listen to the full episode here to dive deeper.
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0:02
Welcome to Marriage IQ, the podcast for the Intelligence Spouse.
I'm Doctor Heidi Hastings.
And I'm Doctor Scott Hastings.
We are two doctors, 2 researchers, 2 spouses, 2 lovers, and two incredibly different human beings coming together for one purpose, to transform the stinky parts of your marriage into scintillating ones using intelligence mixed with a little fun.
0:34
Welcome back everyone to Marriage IQ.
We're glad you're here.
We are continuing our conversation with Doctor Corey Allen from Sexy Marriage Radio and just kind of getting some insights on relationships, sex, and being our own person, our own identity.
0:56
Some great insight here, different perspective.
Let's dive right in.
Here we go.
I would think that generally speaking, the women, the wife, again, generally speaking, not stereotyping, but the wife tends to be the one who folds typically.
1:15
And I think perhaps a lot of that is just social conditioning.
I don't.
Know how much of it is biologic?
There might be some role there, but.
Maybe less so with younger couples now.
I think women are socialized more now to have a voice than they were when I was growing up and some of the younger years.
1:37
What's your experience with couples?
I think this is an equal opportunity thing and has been through every single generation.
There are some very poorly developed men in our world.
I get that, but would you say is it equal 5050?
I would have no idea on how it's going to land, but I don't think one gender has a monopoly on it.
1:55
I think it plays out differently.
Right.
I'm not saying it's a monopoly.
I'm saying generally speaking over 50%.
Well, if I go according to the theory, if one person is not showing up well in the marriage like you're describing here, Scott, like what if?
2:12
Folding into their husband's identity.
OK.
So they're more relationally driven than than individually driven, right.
We can use that that I would think that it's going to be contingent on topic within the marriage, not not as a whole.
Because I think what you actually would start seeing what I would notice, I would hope early on when I start to see, let's say the wife takes a backseat with her voice on a particular topic.
2:37
OK, what that will tell me is, OK, where is he doing the exact same thing because that it's poorly differentiated people, not just one because if they're if one was more developed, they wouldn't tolerate it.
They would have been gone a long time ago.
And so anytime I think I'm more mature than Pam, I'm in for a gut punch because I realized Nope, I am not anymore much.
3:00
I may be a half a step ahead of her at most on.
Some topics.
Right on something like maybe I handle myself better in 1/2 step only way, but that's not much at all.
So.
So it's realizing I'm doing the exact same thing, it just plays out different.
3:18
I can see that now that you say that in our own relationship as well as other people's that we worked with that, yeah.
So I mean, I can think of some men in particular where that happened in certain scenarios.
3:33
Maybe maybe I'm speaking more specifically when it comes in regards to sexually because I think we've discussed this before how the wife does tend to kind of bold into the husband's what he identifies and as.
3:53
Well, and there are several different reasons that could be the case.
Yep, we've talked about some of those in the past.
But do do you disagree, Corey?
Give me an example what you're talking about.
Let's talk.
Let's talk real.
Well, I mean, just if a husband says, hey, I want to have sex right now and the wife doesn't feel like it and but she does it because she kind of folds that identity into she doesn't have her own identity in that realm.
4:23
Because she's caught in the dilemma of if I stood up for I don't really want this, then there's going to be a price to pay.
Or if I go through it and OfferUp something for him then there's a price to pay.
Right, there's a price either way, but she figures it's less if she just gives in to him.
4:39
OK, OK.
So I I think that is at play, but I think both of them are equally poorly developed in that equation because he's settling for bad sex, but he can play this game of hell.
No, I'm not.
Yeah, yes, if she says no.
4:56
And because, again, there's a difference here.
Sometimes a wife can be.
You know what?
I'm not here for me.
I bet I will gladly be here for you.
That's a different kind of a conscious.
I'm engaged and maybe her body comes along with it 'cause that happens with responsive desires.
5:12
The mind makes the decision and the body follows hopefully.
And so maybe as they get into it, it shifts and she's really engaged and maybe she didn't start speaking up.
That's a different scenario.
But the scenarios where it's really really one sided, largely my curiosity is what's going on with him on why he wants multiple helpings of really bad sex.
5:31
He likes in and out versus Capital Grill.
Well, wait.
You may not know any better.
But, and that's, and that's a lot of it is it's ignorance.
And most people don't.
They think sex is the Nirvana as far as the act in and of itself, rather than, OK, wait, if it's actually really good sex, then you're getting to actually experience and taste the sweetness of each other, the essences of each other.
5:57
It's not just a sexual act.
Then so it sounds like we need to educate a lot of men because the average length of time for intercourse is about 6 minutes and the average length of for a man to orgasm is about 5 minutes.
6:13
So that that that leaves a lot of men, what I'm saying here, who don't think about their wives in that way.
And so it sounds to me that there's a lot of guys who have no clue how good sex can be if they could change the way that they think about it.
6:29
Right, as you're suggesting.
Mm Hmm.
Absolutely, and I think there's some of the men in that category that are probably scared of good sex too.
Tell me about that.
'Cause it would require more of them if their wife actually showed up with her desire, her Eroticism, her passion, her power, her prowess.
6:49
And I think there's a lot of men that get scared by that because I mean, to put it succinctly, we have a refractory period where as women don't, they can go and go and go.
Were she to desire that, he would be like, well, but hold on, I can't sustain an erection that long.
7:05
I've already ejaculated.
Well then that's what I say to him.
Well, your fingers still work, your tongue still works.
There's other apps you know marital age you can get that can work this toys.
You can still stay there and be a part of the pleasure for her, just like you maybe settled for for with coming from her back to you.
7:21
So it sounds like we need to address you using this one, one scenario.
I guess there's a lot in marriage.
Sex is the only one, but.
I use, I use that the adage of sex is a language and it and how we do sex is how we do life and how we do life is how we'll do sex.
7:38
That's a snarsh phrase, and because I can't escape who I am as a sexual being in my life too, I will still Orient fundamentally in very similar ways.
I like that.
Yeah, tell me about some people use the term duty sex, some people use other terms.
7:57
But I think what it really is coming down to is using your agency and what's your motivation and what's your ability to use agency within making sexual decisions of what I will and won't do, when I will or won't do something.
8:13
Give me some of your ideas, some of your learning on what makes the most healthy sexual relationships that you're talking about, those really beautiful, grounded, connecting relationships when it comes to motivation and agency.
8:29
OK, so a lot of it is consciously chosen, freely sought after desire is the big difference.
Which that then means I've done some individual work on who am I as a sexual being.
What really speaks to me as a sexual being.
It's not about what my spouse wants or doesn't want or how they or how they want to do it exactly.
8:49
It's who am how do I identify as a sexual human being?
And because a lot of times I think duty sex is catering and accommodating to the higher desire as an attempt to just pawn them off, move on down the road, get on to other things, whatever.
9:08
I mean, that's at that's at its worst.
But I think you can have an element to where you see that pressure that goes on in a marriage where the higher desire wants it more than the lower desire.
Well, both parties though, still have to move into their own crucibles of what's going on in me on why I'm seeking this.
9:28
Is this coming out of more of a emptiness mentality of I feel better when we have sex?
I feel more I get value from this.
My identity is from the my ability to score, you know, because that's sadly part of the equation at times.
9:45
Or do I ask myself the questions of what is it that I don't like about this?
Why do I not even want this?
Do I even want this?
Because there's a lot of lower desires that they don't want it, but they don't want to bring that to the forefront because then their spouse may leave.
So we're both kind of caught in these dilemmas of how do I really ask myself better questions within the moment of these dynamics and then act accordingly or challenge myself?
10:13
Because I really believe growing and evolving into a better human being is I live my way into it.
I don't just think my way into it.
So wait though, Corey, you said you need to know your identity first, who you are as a sexual being, which we agree with.
In fact, it's one of our four cornerstones.
10:30
But now you're telling me that I need to use insight, another of our four cornerstones, to actually perhaps think about things in different ways that may end up resulting in me changing my identity.
10:48
How does that work?
Like, 'cause it, Well, we teach this.
Obviously, you know, we agree with you, but I think it's the important thing to to realize is this identity that you go back to, we go back to it's kind of our core basic principle.
It is changing throughout our lives.
11:05
Right, it's.
Evolving.
It's evolving.
We need to understand this fact that it's not, oh, I figured out who I am.
I think largely we can probably get 80 plus percent there.
I don't know, don't quote me exactly, but there's always this part of us that can be evolving, changing, and that means maybe changing some of our boundaries that we might have placed around ourselves.
11:31
For oh, that's the commonality of all of us that grow.
I mean, that's the idea of the very first time you heard about the idea of French kissing.
You do what?
No, I'm not letting somebody's tongue get in my house.
Or then go even further, you hear the first time you hear about oral sex, you want me to put my mouth where no, you know, but then we we face the anxiety, we lean into it, we grow.
11:58
Maybe we realize I actually kind of enjoy participating in this or having this done.
And so if we look at our entirety of life like you're describing, Scott, is we are evolving all the time.
How am I just constantly challenging some of this so I don't just become too rigid and miss some of the opportunities life presents to me?
12:18
Absolutely.
I like it.
Somebody's brought up just the other day how it sex is.
It's adult play, You know, as kids, you go out, you play in the sandbox, you run, you go down the slide.
Kids love that stuff.
I love to watch them at the playground.
12:34
I don't want to play on a playground anymore, you know, And this is adult play.
And I think when you bring up things like that, you talk about world sex and things like that.
I think it depends on the age right in the development and where we are.
Well, there's also so much that is exposing of ourselves to where you can get into this whole big power dynamic of the idea of providing pleasure and receiving pleasure.
12:58
I mean, there's something about having a prowess that's able to look my spouse in the eye before a sexual encounter and go, I'm going to make it hard for you to walk when we're done because of what I can bring to this equation.
You know that I have that ability and they may not.
13:15
They're like, no, I'm not interested.
OK, well, but it's just there's a congruence of ourselves and how we carry ourselves, then that carries such a different presence because that's also what we want to have show up.
If you're, if we're honest, when things go sideways in life, I want a spouse that will show up and be alongside me.
13:36
Be it, be supportive, be a help me, be somebody that is there as a presence with me in this, that the more I can have that in all aspects of my life and the better everything is.
That's really great and I agree with that.
13:53
In my research, women were saying, and these are women who had husbands with problematic pornography use and half of them at least with other forms of sexual, what they consider to be sexual betrayal.
They talked about being sexually groomed by their husbands to do things that they never would have done otherwise.
14:15
And that's really interesting because to me that says there was no agency.
Their motivation was to keep him tied to the marriage so he wouldn't go looking elsewhere or so he wouldn't look at porn or whatever the motivation was.
14:30
But then as they got into that healing stage and they're moving from a human development perspective into greater levels of using agency, they were really curious about what healthy sexuality is and they wanted to learn about that.
14:48
And they, some of them did.
And I guess that's why I asked the question about agency and how that plays in with decision making.
Because something that they may have had the motivation of, I'm doing this to force my husband to stay with me even though I don't want anything to do with it.
15:06
He groomed me and I had no choice to make that switch to.
Instead, I want to feel pleasure.
And maybe when things are really slowed down instead of, you know, more aggressive, then maybe I can accept some of those things that I in the past felt morally or socially or religiously even opposed to.
15:35
What thoughts do you have on that?
Yeah, agency is a key to having a vibrant relationship and for sure vibrant sexual experiences in that relationship, in that marriage because you want to consenting fully participating spouses.
That's that's what makes the best experiences.
15:52
Yes, there are still the dilemmas that happen where it leans one way or another a little bit more, but that's part of the natural inherent thing that goes on between the differences and levels of desires.
But this is that element we talked about early on in our, in our, the conversation of when I can start to have some better examination of my past, you know, I can look back at some things retroactively and realize, you know what?
16:15
Wait, I could have had a voice there, Why didn't I?
What was that about?
Well, I was afraid he was going to go do the OK.
What how legitimate is that fear?
And if he actually would have this, what I asked women if in this for this scenario, ask him point blank if you did not give sex to him and he went and had affairs, what does that actually tell you about him?
16:37
Good point.
Right, that.
Who are you actually married to then?
You can't control.
Anyone so?
So not controlling them.
Is this a good judgement as it stands right now?
If you have to feel like you have to control his penis on where it may or may not go, come on.
16:53
Because this is about something he would do to himself.
By getting back to that insight with ourselves and asking ourselves these questions, these very hard questions, really.
And how would you talk to that same husband then?
I would, assuming he's in the room, which most of the time they would be, I would watch his reaction to these questions because typically he's going to try to slide and get in a pretty good stance to protect himself or defend himself.
17:18
And then that gives me an opening to dive deeper into.
OK, what is sex for you?
What is this really about?
What is it about having sex that is an identity part of you to use you guys as terminology and and you start getting deeper into it, because a lot of times it gets into this element of he's getting identity or value.
17:35
He's getting another validation from having sex that it makes him feel more virile or alive or whatever.
But he ever asked the really, does he really ask the questions of himself of but is it good?
Is it actually with a willing participant?
17:51
Is it somebody that would push back?
Is it somebody that wants their own things and then you know, so then you get it.
You have a whole different Ave.
You can go with both of them now.
I was just thinking if we did this with a diet plan because the eating is the same way, right?
You ask yourself before you go into the pantry, do I really need this?
18:10
Yeah.
Why am I eating this?
And then you just start peppering yourself with questions.
Well, my wife and I had that very conversation this afternoon because we're talking about a total revolutionation of our diet when our son leaves in less than a month for college and we'll be empty nesters.
18:28
We're talking about what if we cleaned all this stuff out, what we really got, this kind of stuff that we know would be better for us.
And then as I'm talking, I'm like, but I don't know if I really want to do that yet.
I'm just talking about it because I haven't come to the decision.
I'm ready to, but I want to at least kind of start dancing around it a little bit because that's how I make my tough decisions.
18:46
Well, I dance around them.
Yeah, at.
Least you're starting.
Exactly questions it takes.
Time and we've gone to a couple of different levels on that from a from a food perspective and our latest one we decided let's just try this for 30 days and see yeah what happens and I guess you could do the same with some of the sexual decisions that you're making right Let's try it once or twice or.
19:09
Well, and that's that element of OK, if I'm letting some of the different things I get presented with as opportunity, sexually or otherwise, if my knee jerk reactions are no, OK, what's that?
What's underneath it?
A lot of times it's fear, it's uncertainty, it's a religious taboo.
It's a something.
19:24
OK, how do I have courage to at least just ask better questions?
OK, wait, what Am I really afraid of?
What would happen if I said yes and we tried it, knowing full well I can say no at any point during the process?
Yeah, consent is really, really important and we do need to pound that.
19:42
We do, but it's also in marriage.
It's a different beast in some ways.
And so that's where I love what you were describing earlier of the agency of one person to be able to say, no, I'm not comfortable with this now, and the other to go, OK, hey, look at what they actually just tried with you though.
19:58
That's actually really good.
That's movement.
Yeah, yeah.
And for the person who's saying I don't feel comfortable with this, just having those questions, having that time to reflect, why is it that I.
Am feeling.
Uncomfortable.
Is there something in my past?
20:14
Is there a narrative I've heard?
I grew up emotional intelligence.
Yep.
Sorry, go ahead.
That's a lot of what we talk about is actually.
Indeed.
Lots of different ways to look at being emotionally intelligent.
Yes, Corey, this has been really fantastic.
20:31
There's so much here, and I think we could unpack a lot more, but we'll probably have you on again sometime.
Love to.
We.
Yeah, we think alike.
I think in a lot of ways that 4 cornerstones in the way that you're teaching.
And I think it's great to hear different perspectives too, right, and how you tackle things.
20:49
I love just that a little bit different perspective.
But a lot of the same goals, so.
A lot of the same goals.
Yeah, exactly.
If you could leave our listeners with one final idea or thought, something that maybe we haven't asked about, but do you think is really important to get into this discussion, what would that be?
21:08
Oh, OK, this is where I've been landing a lot in my life and in the teachings I've got a chance to do lately of it's along the same lines of what I want to be married to me and but it's on the other side of the equation of how do I get better at dealing with the spouse I have, not the one I wish they were.
21:28
Nice.
Because we get so caught up in this, what I'm trying to actually do is make them change rather than face them for who they really are.
Because there's a lot of good in there too, right?
There's a lot of really good things that makes them tick that when I need, I'm being challenged to grow to deal with and face better and connect with rather than I want you to do it this way only.
21:50
I love that.
Yeah, that goes back to that commitment, but from a more agentic using more agency in keeping that commitment right, looking for the good, where can I see the good here and.
Well, but also, where can I see the bad and not hold it against them because it's just different than me?
22:11
It's actually not bad, it's just different.
That's the difference between conflict and contention.
Yeah, seeing our differences as a superpower, maybe that helps us just broaden our perspective and exactly have different.
Gifts and I can put up with your smelly feet.
22:29
I do not.
You did not have snow.
You are like Mary Poppins, practically perfect in it.
There you go.
That's why I went walking on the park yesterday, trying to figure out my part of why I was being so raunchy yesterday.
22:48
Well, it's been a real delight to have you on with us.
And for our listeners, it was kind of fun.
As we were chatting before we got on here, when we asked Corey to come and spend a little bit of time with us on marriage IQ, we had no idea where they were from.
Come to find out he and Scott have offices, what, 3-4 miles away from each other?
23:10
Maybe yeah, if that's the.
Name town so.
We're.
Going to have to go to dinner one of these days, but if our listeners want to find out more about what you do besides Sexy Marriage Radio podcast, where else would they find you?
23:26
So everything I do is under one umbrella and the address is SMR dot FM.
That's where you would find all the episodes over 1000 articles.
There's a community that we've created, it's called Sexy Marriage Radio Nation, that there's a free level and then a paid level that gets you more and more access.
23:43
So it's all right there, everything, and how you can find me to work with me is all.
Right there.
So SMR short for sexy marriage radio dot FM correct?
Dot FM correct?
FM like radio.
Exactly.
Old FM channels.
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for joining us today and it's been such.
24:00
A pleasure right back at you and blessings on the continued mission you guys have.
Keep at it.
Thank you so much and for all of you out there listening, thank you so much for listening.
Remember that the scintillating marriage starts with first changing yourself.
24:15
Till next week.
We'll see you on another exciting episode of Marriage IQ.
