Episode 84. From Rwanda, With Love: A Marriage Mission
When Love Travels: What Rwanda Taught Us About Marriage, Purpose, and Power
Three years ago, during one of our marriage retreats, we scribbled a dream in a notebook:
“Serve together in Africa—teach, heal, empower.”
It felt far away, almost naive. We had four kids, research deadlines, and busy careers. But that dream didn’t stay quiet. It kept showing up in our weekly couples council. We prayed about it. Talked about it. Moved it from someday to soon.
And then—it happened. Twice.
This year, Marriage IQ partnered with the Dream Nziza Foundation and traveled to the rolling hills of Rwanda. What unfolded there changed us.
Why Rwanda?
We were invited by a young man we love like family—Isaac, a former refugee from Rwanda who lived near us in Texas. After building a life in the U.S., he felt called to give back to the country that raised him in struggle. He founded Dream Nziza (“Big Dreams”) and asked us to join the work: serving women and families in some of the most impoverished villages in the nation.
We said yes—with full hearts and heavy suitcases full of donations.
The Women Who Work in Silence
In rural Rwanda, women do almost everything—tending fields, raising children, collecting water, managing homes—and yet they often have no voice in their marriages, no rights to property, and no access to resources. Many of the women we met had endured trauma, abuse, and loss that defies comprehension. Their children didn’t go to school—not because they didn’t want to, but because $80 a year in school fees was impossible.
They came to us not asking for pity.
They came hungry to learn.
What We Taught (and What Taught Us)
We taught what we know best: healing, self-reliance, and healthy relationships. I shared our four cornerstones—Identity, Intentionality, Insight, Intimacy—translated into Kinyarwanda, adapted for women who had never been taught to ask, “What do I need? Or feel? Or want?”
We talked about trauma. About agency. About boundaries, parenting, periods, emotional regulation, and—yes—even kissing.
Did you know some of these women had never kissed their husbands? In many communities, they were told it was sinful. So when our translator said, “Tonight, go home and kiss your husband,” it sparked laughter, shock, and something new: curiosity. One woman stood up the next day and said, “I didn’t kiss him, but I was kinder to him last night.” And that—was the beginning of something powerful.
Our daughter, Emilee, who’s training as a therapist, led sessions on mental health. She taught affirmations like I am strong. I am smart. I am beautiful. I am a child of God. First in English. Then in Kinyarwanda. The women repeated them, hands over hearts, some with tears streaming down their cheeks.
What a Sheep Can Do
While we were preparing curriculum, recording videos, and packing suitcases full of donated clothes, our Marriage IQ community and church communities stepped in with something extraordinary: sheep.
Yes—sheep.
In Rwanda, a sheep is more than livestock. It’s a tool for self-reliance. Women who own sheep can breed them, sell them, trade them, and in time, even buy land. Land means dignity. Stability. Legacy. Through your generosity, we were able to give away 33 sheep to women and young girls. One woman told us she once cared for a neighbor’s sheep and was given the firstborn lamb. That one lamb eventually led to property ownership.
That’s the kind of ripple effect we live for.
Scott’s Medical Mission
While I was in the hills, Scott was down in Kigali working in the hospitals—performing procedures, teaching medical students, and treating diseases rarely seen in the U.S., like tuberculosis and advanced HIV. He met a young woman with a collapsed lung who had been misdiagnosed. His intervention likely saved her life.
He also saw something else: the cost of systems without hospice, without oxygen, without resources. It was heartbreaking—but also energizing. Because love, when it shows up with skill and humility, heals.
So What Does This Have to Do With Marriage?
Everything.
This trip began as a shared vision—nurtured in weekly couples councils and prayer. It required teamwork, sacrifice, planning, trust. It was the culmination of intentional marriage in action. And it gave us a front-row seat to how women across the world are longing for the same things we all are:
💬 Respect
💛 Safety
🤝 Partnership
🔥 Intimacy
🌱 Hope
We saw firsthand how trauma and poverty impact relationships. How tradition can silence love. But also—how education, connection, and compassion can spark change. And how a woman with tools—not rescue, but tools—can transform not just her home, but her entire village.
From Marriage Vision to Global Mission
We’re still processing everything we experienced. But one thing is clear:
A scintillating marriage doesn’t stay small.
It doesn’t stay safe.
It grows. It gives. It reaches.
Whether that’s across the world—or across your dinner table—it begins with a dream spoken out loud, a goal written down, and the courage to move forward together.
Want to Help?
🎥 See the videos on Instagram: @MarriageIQ
🐑 Donate a sheep to a woman in Rwanda: https://www.dreamnziza.org/
👐 Pray. Share. Love boldly.
Because marriage is not just a private contract—it’s a platform for change.
And love, when lived out loud, can move mountains.
Or at least… bring sheep to them.
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0:02
Welcome to Marriage IQ, the podcast for the Intelligence Spouse.I'm Doctor Heidi Hastings.And I'm Doctor Scott Hastings.We are two doctors, 2 researchers, 2 spouses, 2 lovers, and two incredibly different human beings coming together for one purpose, to transform the stinky parts of your marriage into scintillating ones using intelligence mixed with a little flan.
0:34
Hello and welcome back all of you scintillating, intelligent people to Marriage IQ and the Hastings Institute for Advanced Marital Studies.You've used that a couple of Times Now.
0:50
That's sounding pretty good.Yeah, I like the ring of it as well.Well, we're taking a break this week, this episode, from doing research.I know we enjoy doing research.That's what we do.It's very slow.
1:06
It's very painstaking to create content that is intelligent, educational and actionable for you and your marriage.This time we're going to bring you some experiences that we've had living among the people of Rwanda.
1:24
Yeah.If you don't know where Rwanda is, get out a map.It's a little country in Africa.It's sandwiched between the Democratic Republic of Congo, Tanzania and Uganda.So.The land of 1000 hills is what they refer to it as and I would say the place that we've been that looks most like it is probably Ireland.
1:50
What do you think about that?Lots of rolling hills, Very green, yes.Very, very green temperate temperatures.Probably the best climate I've ever had.Yeah, I've ever experienced.It's really beautiful.Lots of hills, yeah, green, deep in kind of the East Africa area.
2:11
This is not our first rodeo with going to an African country right now.Let me give you some background.Back about 3 or 4 years ago, we started talking, Heidi and I amongst ourselves about some visions.
2:26
And one of the visions that we wanted for ourselves is to see ourselves working among people in Africa doing humanitarian service.I think it was three years out that we said within three years we wanted to see that happen.All right.
2:42
That was on our three-year vision list.And kept bringing it up every year.During our marriage retreats and you know, we just kept talking about we moved it from a vision to a goal.And you know when you talk about your goals every week, it does something to.
3:00
You in couples councils?Yes, in our couples council, every week it does something to you.It makes you start thinking of that thing more and more.And start taking action.And you start taking action, and that's what we started doing because we knew it was going to be big.
3:16
And so that's what led us to our first trip to Africa for humanitarian purposes.And we were in Kenya.We're in Tanzania mainly in July of 2023.Where I worked with women who were very vulnerable in helping provide them ways to have businesses.
3:38
I was involved with some discussions on some relationship things, but your role there was super exciting.For you, you did education for women.Powering women.To be empowered, independent, I worked at the local hospital, if you want to call it that.
3:58
It was very exciting things that I'd never see here in the US and.Even among the tribal area, like outside of Arusha, about an hour or two, wasn't it that?Yeah, we went to most of village outside of Arusha, which is the larger community there, and was able to treat some members of different tribes there.
4:20
It was very fulfilling.I just could not imagine being more fulfilled as a physician in my life.I was able to purchase medications for very cheap, distribute them.Medical supplies too.Some medical supplies do some procedures, injections and things and you know.
4:39
Really help people.Yeah.So anyway, we we loved it.It was awesome.It was wonderful.It was life changing, but it was something that we made as a goal together, start as a vision, then it moved to a goal and we talked about that goal all the time until we were just like.
4:58
Time to ask.Why are we keep talking about this?We're not doing anything.And so that's how it happened.And so Fast forward now to 2024, and we want to do it again.
5:13
A.Little more personal.We had a friend who we've befriended since he was pretty young. 14 I think.And he'd.Been a refugee in Rwanda for 14 years, lived there his whole life, settled in the Dallas area about 45 minutes away from us and we kind of mentored.
5:32
Him.There's been, yeah, I've been friends with Isaac.He's our son's best friend.They went to college together and then he started the foundation Dream Ziza, which means big dreams.Big dreams.He wanted to give back to the country that allowed him to come to America and so he founded this non profit dream, Ziza.
5:56
He started out just to keep teaching English in schools there, but they expanded their vision this year and and Isaac and our son Hunter and his wife Lydia are very integrally involved in this and invited us to come along with them this year.
6:12
So we, we planned it, we made it happen.We got back very, very recently and wanted to share with you some insights on our trip and how that pertains to marriage and how people in Rwanda look at marriage and relationships.
6:30
I, I know that Isaac had to do some extra planning to help me get into Rwanda to perform medical duties.And so I actually did get a an official license to practice in the country of Rwanda.
6:48
I met the Minister of Health.Did you meet him?Made it possible.He's great.Just a young guy in his 40s.Probably had lunch with him before you got there.But he's part of what made all of this happen.So a lot of planning was needed and done me for getting in there medically and Heidi spent lots and lots of hours preparing curriculum and handouts files to teach to women, to educate and empower women.
7:19
Both women and young women in a very impoverished village.There's some, yeah.One of the most vulnerable people in the country.Yeah.So anyway, we just wanted to tell you a little bit about this adventure.
7:36
Yeah, today.Adventure for sure.You know, anytime you go to Africa, it's going to be an adventure.It just is.Really wonderful.It started out by me taking videos.I I showed up at the airport after I dropped off Heidi and the kids.
7:53
And our daughter Emily went with me, Hunter and.Lydia went, Heidi and Emily and two other people, a couple who were going with them on this trip to DFW.And I remember walking back in the door, seeing just this chaotic scene with zippers open and luggage and clothes everywhere.
8:13
And I saw our daughter Emily stuffing things down her shirt.And I said, what is going on?Well, evidently with all the stuff they wanted to bring over there to Rwanda. 6 suitcases filled with clothes for the women and girls as donations.
8:29
Well, evidently they are overweight.Yep.For Turkish Airlines, Yep.And so they were trying to.Make we thought we were.We thought we were within the weight limit, but we didn't know that they were weighing our carry ONS and we were only allowed to have a total between our backpack and our carry on of 17 lbs, which meant we had to take everything out of those because that was everything we were living on for 2 1/2 weeks.
8:57
The stuff in the suitcases was just stuff we were giving away, so we had to redistribute weight.It took about two hours and we had to put on probably 5 or 6 outfits apiece to make that happen to get through.Fun times.I have videos.
9:13
And you will post them.We'll post them this week.So I got them off, came back home, I flew out a week after they left and started my medical experience there in Kigali, which is the capital of Rwanda.As Heidi was saying earlier, Rwanda is very, very unique, nice climate, as I said, very green.
9:35
Never.Over 80° it was about 50.The most the best climate I think I've ever.I've been to a lot of countries.I think it's the best climate I've ever been in.A lot of motorcycles, a lot of people walking.No cars really.I mean, there's cars, but. 20% of the people.On cars do not own cars there.
9:52
So the highways, very unusually, have lots of people walking on the sides of the highways everywhere you go.Everywhere you go, the average wage for an average worker in Rwanda is somewhere around 3 to $6 a day.And more for most closer to if.
10:08
You're highly skilled.You might get $25 a day.And this isn't per hour people.This is per day.And those who are making $3 a day are working very hard, hard labor out in the fields, usually women.So the hospital, I can talk a little bit more about that later, but let's just say it was definitely more advanced than the one in Tanzania, but it's not what you're going to see anywhere in the United States.
10:35
We'll get to that a little bit more when I talk about the hospital.Heidi, you got out there a little bit earlier.You got to go up to a rural village.I didn't get to.Do that.Yeah.We went up to Gessini and then about an hour and a half drive from that every day in like we were up above and we would dip down for about 45 minute drive on a bumpy, dirt, dusty Rd. surrounded by the most beautiful fields of produce you've ever seen in your life.
11:10
Gorgeous, gorgeous.This little community, They harvest the produce.Probably somebody wealthy in Kigali bought all the fields, but these workers produce the produce and then people go sell it to the rest of the country and maybe even other parts of Africa.Just rolling hills filled with the most beautiful rich dirt.
11:28
Well, it's a very small country and I think it took hours to get even maybe, what, 20 miles?It took what, 3 hours?Something like that?Yeah, well, traffic's kind of crazy with all the motorcycles and people walking.And then the small roads.Yeah.So tell me about your experiences with educating not only women to be empowered, but also empowered in their marriages and their relationships.
11:53
Yeah.So we've gotten word ahead of time from a nonprofit that we were working there with in Rwanda that these are some of the most impoverished women in the country.They were probably maybe 50 to 100 years behind progressively than those in Kigali.
12:11
And they did not have good marriage relationships, generally speaking, did not have parenting skills.What do you mean?They, they just said they, they had tough relationships because typically they would work really hard.
12:29
They would give the money to their husbands money.The husbands would drink it away and give them very little that was remaining that then they had to use to somehow procure food and pay school fees for their children, which for us is about $80 a year.
12:47
But for them that's a tremendous amount of money and that much would be a lot for them.They couldn't do it.So a lot of the children were just running around the town, the village, it's a larger village community, not going to school during the day.
13:03
So only those who really had a little bit more privilege and income would would be able to educate their children.So they found through this organization, we were working with 60 of the most vulnerable women.
13:19
And then in the afternoons, we would work with about 25 young women, high school women, and that was really wonderful.So I just didn't know how it was going to go.Had very little information on what their experiences were.
13:35
But like we always do, we started with identity.Yeah.And teaching the four cornerstones in rural Africa.Taught them about knowing who they are.
13:51
They didn't really use agency very much.They just kind of worked more in tradition rather than thinking for themselves.And it was so amazing to see us be able to expand their perspectives of what they're capable of and how they're they actually can have a future.
14:14
We were told they were quite hopeless, but by the end, I know they were really hopeful.I spent the first day doing that, and my daughter Emily mostly worked with them on mental health tools.These are women who'd had really, really hard lives, very traumatic in a lot of ways.
14:30
And she taught them about emotions and about controlling your thoughts, about affirmations.I loved, loved, loved.One of my favorite parts was when she would tell them in their language she learned the phrases for I am beautiful, I am strong, I am smart, I am brave.
14:52
And we would have them repeat that back and forth, first in Kenya Wandan, which is the language, and then in English.And I am a child of God.Which no one really speaks Ki Rwandan outside of Rwanda.Well, they do.
15:08
They in some areas they do, and in some it's just slightly changed a little bit, but yeah, it's mostly there.And so that was really cool.I taught them about trauma and how their body might respond to trauma, what some of the impacts of trauma are on relationships.
15:29
And then the next couple of days I taught them about health.Well, health itself, and about female reproductive systems and periods and cleanliness and health and germs.They found that all of that very interesting.
15:45
They didn't know any of that before.And then I taught them about healthy marriage relationships.Now this was pretty interesting.Did you know that in this culture, most at least in maybe in Kigali, it might be a little bit different but, and if so, probably just more recently, but it a lot of them have been told by their religious leaders that kissing is a sin.
16:10
And so they might have 5810 kids and have never even kissed each other.They, I talked to them about intimacy and I taught them all the four cornerstones as it pertains to marriage, but talked about just touching each other or holding hands and they just giggled and got kind of embarrassed and didn't really know what was going on with that.
16:35
That's really interesting.My translator, without me telling her to say this, told them OK you all need to go home tonight and kiss your husband and oh it was a big brouhaha.That was quite controversial amongst the African women, yeah.
16:52
So I asked them the next day, did you all go home and kiss your husbands?And no, none of them did.But one woman stood up.They would always stand up when they had something to say.One stood up and said I didn't kiss my husband, but I was nicer to him last night.
17:12
So they didn't seem to really understand about love in marriage.They didn't really understand about intentionally protecting the marriage relationship and investing in the marriage relationship.And when on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you're down to the very basics.
17:32
I need food.I need shelter.You know, love maybe isn't as big of a priority, although we all need love.It's, you know, they just didn't think about those things and they were very interested.There were a few that were really voraciously taking notes.
17:51
And you brought in this new way of thinking.Yeah, we talked.So now they have a new way to at least think about things, a new perspective.We talked about healthy sexuality, a little bit about consent, and so they closed all the windows.
18:07
They wanted to feel safe knowing that they could ask some questions.We didn't get very deep into it, just the very basics, but I think that was helpful for them to know kind.Of culture that they don't talk about, really.Never at all, right, right.
18:24
So we had some good talks about that.We talked about parenting, the differences between discipline and punishment, which they tend to have some pretty severe punishment sometimes, and so taught them a different way about how teaching through natural consequences that was really impactful for them.
18:44
And then we talked about self-reliance.And so we danced a lot.They would just out and song and dance all the time and I, we might post some videos on that, but they're beautiful dancers and I definitely am not.
19:03
You got to have some joints and stuff I do not have.And beautiful people.They had huge smiles, huge, huge smiles.So much love.They loved us and we loved them.In fact, I either cracked a rib or injured a rib because of all of the hugs that we got and they were so appreciative.
19:22
Yeah, lots of hugs.I do recall seeing a video that you sent or you were handing out little diplomas or certificates at the.End I It's a huge deal for.Women, that's a big deal.And those of you who were on our Marriage IQ Instagram account and maybe Facebook account may have seen the fundraising that we were doing for sheep, for these women.
19:43
And we were able to purchase 33 sheep with the money that we got.And there's one more still going because one died the day before we gave them away.But a sheep to a woman, especially in rural Rwanda, can make all the difference because they have to, like I said, turn their money over to their husband.
20:04
We gave some to the young women and some.To the women you're saying normally they turn their money but they have a sheep.This is what they own.This is what they own.One of the women told us that she just cared for a sheep for her neighbor and they have a tradition in Rwanda.
20:20
If you have an animal, the first born you have to give to a neighbor.So as she cared for the sheep for her neighbor, her neighbor gave her the first sheep and then she was able to breed that and have several more.They have two or three babies a year.
20:36
And then after a couple of years, she had raised enough sheep that she was able to sell them and buy a piece of property, which is so empowering for a woman to have her own property that she can grow crops on or build a house on.
20:51
They just built the houses there out of mud bricks.But amazing, amazing women that we tried to build a sisterhood with that they would rely on each other and see each other's strengths as helping lift each other up instead of being jealous of or pulling each other down.
21:10
If they use their resources and work together, they can be unstoppable.That was one of the highlights of my life.Sounds like you were kind of a miracle to some of these people.I don't know about that, but I learned a lot from them as well.
21:25
Emily and I both did.That really, truly is such a blessing in our lives.So you mentioned about in marriage specifically sexual relationships, which was kind of superficial.Yeah, well, you just, you talked about emotions.
21:41
Did you talk about communications?Different styles?Mostly communicating with kindness instead of anger.They, first of all, didn't say you could say no to sex when you're tired, when you're exhausted after you've just had a baby or whatever.
21:57
And they were very interested to learn how to say things like, honey, I'm just really, really tired tonight.I love you.I want to be with you.But can we do it another time or can we just hug some of the things that Amanda, Amanda Louder taught us?
22:15
Yeah, I was able to bring up there.And they found that very, very liberating and just speaking in kindness and love, communicating, having joint power, which is very novel to them, and being able to speak up for what we want or need, but do it in a very kind and respectful way.
22:35
And I like how you did it kind of as a a lecture series at a like a classroom.They could ask.Kind of more formal with the whole graduation ceremony and everything.We had such a great.Very cool.Translator But with the young women, when we talked to them, we used the same topics but came at it from a different perspective.
22:56
And all of their questions were about healthy relationships.They wanted to know, how do I know if he loves me?How many times do I have to keep begging him to come back, to trust me, to whatever?And so we were able to point out what makes relationships really healthy and what makes them really unhealthy and what is actually considered abusive or just not healthy.
23:22
And we used a tire like a bicycle because a lot of them ride bicycles.They use the bicycles to carry and push these super heavy loads.And lots of things on their heads too.Lot on their head.Oh, they must have great core ABS because their ability to balance heavy heavyweight on their heads is really incredible.
23:45
Yeah, so, you know, maybe we should have our episodes translated into Kira London, maybe.I don't know how to do that.And then Isaac took us to his refugee camp, or what used to be.
24:01
He grew up in a refugee camp there and for him it was a very emotional experience.Yeah, they had to.Go back there and see where he lived in this very, very, very trying time.I didn't have enough food to some of these.Stories that he told us were just outrageous about this refugee camp.
24:22
It was not a place that there was a lot of comfort and they couldn't tell.Somebody when they got word that they were leaving to go to another country because they might be poisoned in the night, so they had to keep it under wraps.They'd get like 3 days notice.
24:38
Their neighbor might poison them, right?But anyway.But the the camp is gone now and it was just beautiful.Mountaintop hills, green, Beautiful.It was actually quite a spiritual experience for me, to be honest, I think.So I sat there and I just looked out over this hill, this where it used to be, this refugee camp, and it was just very quiet.
25:01
And of course, some local children came up.The women coming in from the fields with their hose over their shoulders.Yeah, we, I think the children had never seen white people before because they would just stare at us.Just stare.They'd lay on the grass.They'd lay on the grass.From us.They'd just stare at us.
25:17
Everywhere we went, that was the case.They'd say white person, white man.And then of course, they loved it when we chased them around and played with them, played with them, and it was a great experience.Moving into some of my experiences coming into the hospital system, like I said, it wasn't my first time.
25:35
The hospital system is a little bit more advanced than the one in Arusha, Tanzania.And didn't you do more teaching at this hospital?So this time I jumped into the hospital.Inpatient internal medicine.That's my specialty.A few things I noticed right off the bat.In Rwanda, punctuality is not on everyone's top priority list.
25:55
Or anyone's probably.It's a little frustrating.African time is very different.Because I had to rely on a driver to get me there.And I hate showing up late, but what can you do, right?So then I get there late and they're late.But I was exhilarating for me to see complicated patients that I haven't really even thought about or looked at since medical school and residency.
26:19
Things like treating advanced HIV and AIDS, tuberculosis, for crying out loud.When was the last time I saw tuberculosis in the US?Cirrhosis, both from alcohol and from hepatitis, End stage biliary cancer.
26:36
They don't have Hospice there.I found that out.Really blessed to have Hospice.You know, toward the end, I found a young lady who was breathing poorly very quickly, very low oxygen levels.They thought that she had a blood clot in her lung.
26:53
And I happened to look at her chest X-ray and saw that she had a collapsed lung, not a blood clot, but so she needed a chest tube very quickly because this was called attention pneumothorax, which is much more serious than a simple pneumothorax.
27:12
I can kill you.By the time I was done, even though surgery had been consulted, nothing had been done and she still sat there with this oxygen with saturation levels in the 70s.Things that I.Don't know if she survived or not.
27:27
Things that would never happen here, but I hope that they were able to get that chest tube in because she was very young, in her 20s, I think maybe early 30s.People with previous tuberculosis, they were treated for it, but their lungs are shot and they can't afford oxygen at home, so they live in the hospital on oxygen.
27:48
You just live there.Think that sending oxygen to their home would be a lot cheaper than keeping them in the hospital?Yeah, you think so, But the way it's set up there is it is different and oxygen at home is really expensive.OK.So I, I loved all of it.
28:05
I loved rounding on these patients, giving my opinions on things, evaluating their their records, labs, imaging EKG's, rounding, doing physical exams and making medical decisions.
28:22
It was very highly rewarding for me.I did work outpatient as well with Doctor Prosper who was the attending physician.Said he's very intelligent.Very intelligent.I really enjoyed working with him.You know, we talked saw a lot of folks with hyperthyroidism, systemic sclerosis and one lady very rare of course, the kidney disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, all the stuff we see here.
28:48
But over there it's you could see what happens when you don't treat them here.This is what you get, the kidney failure, heart failure and that we see that there quite a bit.I am quite surprised that I didn't see more musculoskeletal problems in women because.
29:10
The heavy loads on their head.Because of the heavy loads they have to balance on their head.I didn't see more cervical spine problems.But the last day I was there we had a lady who came in with severe sciatica.
29:27
I couldn't understand a word what she was saying, but I was able to pinpoint the sacroiliac joints was the focal point of her pain.So I actually before I left was able to do an injection and have her be in so much less pain before I left.
29:42
I just felt so good about that.That's great.And that's something you just took along with you.Yeah, I just brought it with me in case I needed it, you know, and.Shots and.And Doctor Prosper did have me teach lecture to some of the medical students about being succinct, in your case, presentation.
30:03
And one of the best things you can do as a physician as learn to be humble.Because if there's anything in this profession, you're going to have to be humble.You will be humbled, you will be wrong, you will make wrong decisions, and it will look very embarrassing if you are haughty and proud.
30:23
So just practice being humble and saying it.It could be this, it could be that.Don't yell at the staff.Be kind to people.While I was there, I got to talk with a a former member of the Rwandan cabinet, Gerald Zerim Boagabo.
30:43
I'm.Sure, I slaughtered.That, but you're.Really jealous that you got to visit with all of their.Yeah, all of their last names there are just almost impossible to pronounce here.Is that.Yeah, he served as an ambassador at one point to Israel.He lived there at this beautiful home, retired with his lovely wife Rita.
31:01
We tried to get him on for an episode of Marriage IQ and was not able to make that happen.But we did spend a couple of hours with him just talking about the one of the main things he's talking about is how important marriage and families are to a society and to culture, he said.
31:19
That is really the keystone to successful society, even above and beyond economic policies.And he should know.He should know.He was heavily involved in that government for several years.
31:36
And you know, he called, he wrote this book.It's called Foundations Matter, A holistic approach to Human Capital development.And what's that about?Well, the gist of it is that it's important to start early, both in marriage, before marriage and when children are born, as soon as possible, to start educating yourself on a foundation of a successful marriage and family, to focus on foundational principles.
32:11
He talks about the cornerstones that we have maybe a little bit differently, but we both agreed upon these cornerstones, learning about our identity, intentionality, insight, intimacy, and found a lot of common ground in what he was teaching.
32:28
He focused again, before you get married.He says you need a podcast on before you get married, not after.It's too late when you're married.You mean like?Pre marriage.IQ or?Pre marriage I do IQ or something like that.
32:45
All right, listeners, what do you think about that?Do you think that's needed?Would that be helpful?Would it?Have been up to you.I, I, I think you said you're too busy to do another podcast.No, but we could maybe do a course on that and not for a course.Let us know.Get married.Right.
33:00
Yeah.Let us know what you think.So anyway, those are all the things we talked about that we both agreed on.It was very, very lovely to talk to this man.He talked about, too, the importance of eating healthy, eating fresh fruits and vegetables, avoiding highly processed foods, which I totally agree with 100%.
33:19
Yeah.You know what you're talking about, this man who was integrally involved in the government for that country.I'm just going to throw out a little statistic here that the current president of Rwanda, who's been in over 20 years now, made a decree at 50% of parliament had to be women.
33:39
And right now it's 2/3 of parliament are women.And I went there and asked if I could go in and observe and I had to write a letter.And it was just like the day before we left.And they didn't get it through before I had to leave.But I would love to see how that might change things for that country, having so many women in positions of power.
34:02
I don't know.Did he talk anything about that with you?Not particularly, no.But we did hear that the men do have a hard time with women in power as far as wanting to be married to them.And so most of the women who are in positions of leadership are not able to have marriage relationships and families because the men feel threatened by it, which I found really interesting.
34:25
Well, they all need to listen to Marriage IQ.That's all I can say here.You know, I did a little research on Rwanda, the marital rates versus the US So there's about four marriages per thousand people per year in at least recently.
34:42
Explain what that means, because that sounds very very low to me.So in a given year, this is like 2023, for every thousand people in Rwanda, 4 of them got married.And what is it in the US?6 roughly.So a little bit less.Getting married a little bit, a little bit higher.
34:59
So yeah, about 49% of Rwandans are married 12 and over.I guess they get married younger there.The girls do anyway. 12 and older, 49% in the US, about 53% Americans over age 18 are married.
35:15
That's over half people just saying.So what are the big takeaways from our Rwanda experience?That's a good question.You know, I feel so fulfilled that we had a vision, we had a goal, We did nothing but talk about it for years.
35:34
And because of that, we started moving, even though we didn't do that all at once.And then we made it happen.Then we had it.We made it happen again.This drives home the point, the importance of sitting down with your spouse, being intentional, making plans and reviewing them weekly, or at least regularly.
35:54
We like weekly with our couples council.One of my big takeaways was perhaps we need to slow down life a little bit.I mean, they're very slow with life, but we are so scheduled here, so scheduled every minute.
36:10
You and I are.We rarely sit down to watch a movie one night a week.Yeah, but they really take a lot of time to have social interactions with neighbors, with extended family, with others.
36:25
Don't involve social media and, you know, phones.You'll see all the highways, like we said, with people walking along the highways, it's usually in groups, people, they might even be in a suit and a long dress going to an event or something, just walking miles and chatting with each other while they're walking, walking, walking.
36:48
Enjoying each other's company.Yeah, I think far more social in a lot of ways.So being intentional, making plans and goals, slowing down, yeah.And then I also, I'm very grateful for the research that we have that I think in some parts is helping educate us about how to be better spouses and better parents.
37:11
And it really hasn't filtered down to them yet.There are some really rough traditions there that do not lend themselves to happiness and family life.Hopefully, what we taught will start making a difference.
37:27
And those we asked the women who could write to take really good notes and then teach other people in their village, We had to turn people away.A lot more people wanted to come and learn.We said you learn, you learn it well.You take notes and then gather as women, empower women to teach these skills to them.
37:48
Maybe we'll go back and have you talked to the menus?Yeah, I think one of the takeaways I'm getting here is that we need to internationalize this message, not just go to Americans a really more international.We do have about 10% of our listeners are international, but they are mostly English speaking.
38:07
Right.But I'm talking what we did.We actually went to their country.We were there, we lived with them.And it, it was wonderful.Look, it brought me incredible deep meaning to do this.You know, I don't have anything to show for it other than a substantial amount of meaning and new perspective, which is huge and worth a lot more money than anything I can drive or live in.
38:31
I'm just saying, you know, the other thing I learned is the people there are a lot like us here.They want to love and they want to be loved.They want to cherish and they want to be cherished.They want meaning and purpose that brings that lasting joy and fulfillment just like we do.
38:54
They are happy people.Like everywhere we would go they would be outside, not inside.Here I drive.I don't see a person outside for miles most of the time, but everyone was outside.We would drive by in this 45 minute dirt road drive through the village and at first they'd look at us with their eyes squinted and I thought they were kind of being mean or upset with us.
39:19
But then I'd wave and smile and they'd get the hugest smiles on their face, just so happy.It was just confusing to them.They weren't mad, they weren't upset, but they were confused at what we were doing, riding in this car, stirring up all the dirt and and they'd just watch for us to come every day and just be waving and wave while we're going down the road.
39:42
Just everywhere and lovely, lovely, loving people.Well, we hope you've enjoyed our travelogue with you today talking about marriage to the people of Rwanda.Our shared vision that made this all possible.And if you have any specific questions, reach out to us.hello@marriageiq.com.
40:04
We can tell you more about our trip if you want.Watch social media.We'll be releasing some videos and some pictures.And yeah, I think we'll be releasing a montage of some videos.So you all have a great Cedar Week.We're glad you're here with us today.
40:19
We love you.And remember that the scintillating marriage starts with changing ourselves first.We'll see you next time on another exciting episode of Marriage iQ.
