Episode 52. Money, Sex, and Marriage: Building Trust and Intimacy
Finances and Sexuality: The Hidden Connection That Can Transform Your Marriage
When couples talk about building a strong marriage, finances and sexuality are often treated like two completely separate conversations. But what if they’re far more entwined than we realize?
At Marriage IQ, we’ve spent years studying what truly strengthens relationships—and we’ve seen firsthand how financial intimacy and sexual satisfaction don’t just coexist; they actively influence each other, shaping the overall health and happiness of a marriage.
How Finances and Intimacy Are More Connected Than You Think
Recent research paints a fascinating picture: couples who manage money well together tend to experience deeper emotional and sexual satisfaction—and vice versa.
Dr. Jeff Hill, a leading family finance researcher, points out that financial stress is a major threat to marital stability. But the link isn’t just one-way: sexual dissatisfaction can actually feed into financial frustration too, creating a cycle of disconnection that touches every part of the relationship.
When financial pressure or work-family conflict builds, it doesn’t stay confined to bank statements or schedules—it often spills over into the bedroom. Likewise, when intimacy breaks down, trust erodes, and it becomes even harder to collaborate financially.
The good news? When couples address both their money and intimacy with openness and intention, the positive effects ripple throughout their entire marriage.
Practical Strategies to Strengthen Both
Thriving marriages aren’t built by accident—they’re built by couples who are willing to lean in, have hard conversations, and intentionally grow together. Here’s how you can start weaving financial and sexual intimacy into a stronger foundation:
1. Open Communication
Be brave enough to talk about both your finances and your intimate needs. No shame, no judgment. Create a space where honesty is safe and expected—whether you're discussing budgets or bedroom desires.
2. Shared Decision-Making
Work together on both fronts. Involve each other when making major financial decisions and when setting goals for your emotional and physical intimacy. Mutual investment leads to mutual fulfillment.
3. Manage Stress Before It Manages You
Financial stress can easily creep into emotional distance. Build habits for managing stress as a team—whether that’s through better budgeting, setting financial boundaries, or simply checking in with each other during busy seasons.
4. Invest in Your Relationship
Put your money—and your time—where your heart is. Attend a couples' retreat. Take a financial planning class together. Set aside time for intimacy without distraction. These investments create compound interest in your relationship.
Why a Holistic Approach Changes Everything
When you nurture both financial intimacy and sexual intimacy, you’re not just solving two separate problems—you’re creating a marriage that’s more connected, more resilient, and more joyful.
This work isn’t about achieving perfection. It's about committing to openness, patience, and mutual growth. It’s about learning to see your marriage as a living partnership where both the practical (money) and the personal (intimacy) matter deeply—and are worth fighting for together.
The bottom line:
When couples are financially aligned and intimately connected, they're not just surviving the challenges of life—they're thriving through them, hand in hand.
And isn't that the kind of marriage we all dream of?
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Welcome to Marriage iQ, the podcast for the intelligent spouse.[00:00:08 - 00:00:10]
I'm Dr. Heidi Hastings.[00:00:10 - 00:00:12]
And I'm Dr. Scott Hastings.[00:00:13 - 00:00:31]
We are two doctors, two researchers, two spouses, two lovers, and two incredibly different human beings coming together for one purpose. To transform the stinky parts of your marriage into scintillating ones, using intelligence mixed with a little fun.[00:00:34 - 00:00:40]
Welcome back to Marriage iq, the podcast where we dive deep into what really makes marriages thrive.[00:00:41 - 00:01:12]
Today we have a power couple, One who knows the numbers and one who knows the nuances of intimacy. Our guests are Dr. Jeff Hill, who's a family finance researcher, and Tammy Hill, a licensed marriage and family therapist and an ASEX surgeon certified sexual educator. She's also an author and a podcast that specializes in helping couples strengthen their emotional and physical connection. So if money and sex are two of the biggest sources of conflict in.[00:01:12 - 00:01:15]
Marriage, we have a car.[00:01:15 - 00:01:29]
But they're also two of the biggest opportunities for deeper connection when you know how to navigate them. Today, we're tackling the tough questions with Jeff and Tammy. Jeff and Tammy, we're so grateful that you're here. Welcome for joining us.[00:01:29 - 00:01:31]
Thank you. Thanks for inviting us.[00:01:31 - 00:01:41]
We hope that our listeners are ready for an eye opening conversation that just might transform the way that you approach sex and money in your marriage. So let's dive in.[00:01:42 - 00:01:43]
Awesome.[00:01:43 - 00:01:56]
So on this podcast, we talk a lot about identity. That's really important, who we are and, and I know in your book you talk about that as well. So we want to ask. Just tell us your story, how you got together.[00:01:57 - 00:01:59]
It's pretty, pretty fascinating story.[00:01:59 - 00:02:06]
We'll try to conceptualize it real fast and. Because that could be a whole podcast in and of itself.[00:02:06 - 00:02:09]
I bet it could. And we might have to have you back on for that.[00:02:10 - 00:02:54]
So Jeff and I were both widowed. I was a widow, he was a widower. And I read an article that he wrote for our church's magazine, and I was very impressed by it and felt the need to respond to the magazine, thanking them for his article, which I did. And the editor of that magazine forwarded my comment to Jeff and Jeff emailed me. And that's how we started communicating. We've been together almost 19 years now. Between the two of us, we have 12 children. And it's been quite a journey. For the last two years, we've been empty nesters, which is the best.[00:02:54 - 00:02:55]
We can vouch for that.[00:02:55 - 00:02:56]
We can vouch.[00:02:56 - 00:02:56]
We.[00:02:56 - 00:02:57]
We think so too.[00:02:57 - 00:03:17]
It's so fun. We have to pinch ourselves every day because it's just so fun. It was tough Raising our children, our two families together. So, so much work and. And now there's just so much joy. And so we're really grateful that we stuck it out and we're here now.[00:03:17 - 00:03:20]
How old were both of you when your spouses died?[00:03:21 - 00:03:23]
I was 37.[00:03:23 - 00:03:23]
Wow.[00:03:24 - 00:03:24]
Very young.[00:03:24 - 00:03:26]
And I was 48.[00:03:27 - 00:03:37]
You were both very young. Oh, my goodness. And so how many years did you have children there with you? The whole. The whole 19 year? Well, I guess 17 years now.[00:03:37 - 00:03:38]
Yep.[00:03:39 - 00:03:59]
And when we were married, there were nine children in the home. You're a family studies PhD. If you look at the research, the chances of our marriage surviving is about 15% with that many children in a blended family situation because it's not always the most natural thing.[00:04:00 - 00:04:01]
And yet here you are.[00:04:01 - 00:04:05]
Nothing natural about it at all. So.[00:04:06 - 00:04:18]
Well, it's awesome to hear that not only have you survived having nine children in the home and three out of the home, but that you're also thriving and loving this stage of life. That says a lot about both of you.[00:04:18 - 00:04:19]
Thank you.[00:04:19 - 00:04:41]
Jeff, let's start with some of your research. You've published over a hundred different articles on family finances throughout your career. You're recently retired. Can you tell us wisdom that you have gained on the 30,000 foot view up of families and finances?[00:04:42 - 00:06:44]
Well, I originally studied work and family. You know, how providing for a family and nurturing a family at the same time. There's a lot that is thought about work, family, fun, fledge work, family, balance, juggling work and family. And I hate all of those terms because they totally miss the point. So my research was from a positive spillover perspective of how work and family can be really good connecting, but they can enhance each other. And then family finance kind of dovetailed right into that. Of course, with finances. That has to do with work. You earn your money, you by working. And so I've looked at how work and family and finances have interacted. And because of the influence of my dear wife, I also included sex in the last couple of years. So how work and family and finances and sex all interact for healthy shamlists. So I use the metaphor of harmony, a music metaphor. It's more like see your life as a symphony. And the different voices in that symphony are your paid employment, your family life, how you manage your finances, and so forth. And you integrate those and you find positive interactions. You focus on the positive and it reduces the conflict a lot. Let me just give you an example. I worked at YBN for many years as a researcher. We look at what were the Best managers. And the best managers in IBM were women who were mothers who had teenage children. So they were the top managers. And why were they? Because if you can manage a household with teenagers, you can manage anything.[00:06:45 - 00:06:46]
They can be flexible.[00:06:46 - 00:06:46]
Right.[00:06:46 - 00:06:48]
They got to be flexible.[00:06:48 - 00:06:49]
I like that.[00:06:49 - 00:07:20]
And so skills that were being learned in the home transferred over to success at work. Sometimes we spend so much time and angst over how work is hurting our family life that we don't see how it can help. So I did research at IBM in this area for five years, trying to make it the foremost work and family company in the world. And then I did it and the university. And let me just share a couple of key things.[00:07:20 - 00:07:20]
Perfect.[00:07:21 - 00:07:48]
What we found out about work and family harmony is that you shouldn't focus on time. It's not the amount of time that makes the conflict, it's the energy involved. But research showed that until you're working 50 to 55 hours a week, the time doesn't matter. It doesn't get in the way of your family life. It's whether or not you're feeling drained of energy from your work.[00:07:48 - 00:07:48]
Okay.[00:07:48 - 00:08:10]
If you're excited about your job, you can work up to 50 hours a week and it won't impact your family life. But if you hate your job, you can work 30 hours a week and it's going to impact your family life. So it's a focus on energy. And so the takeaway is find ways at work to do things that energize you instead of drain you.[00:08:10 - 00:08:11]
Wow.[00:08:11 - 00:08:15]
Things at home that energize you and don't drain you.[00:08:15 - 00:08:16]
Okay.[00:08:16 - 00:08:20]
Marriage. Your energy more than managing your time.[00:08:20 - 00:08:21]
Wow.[00:08:21 - 00:08:28]
What are the big secrets that you found that most help give you energy in both work and home?[00:08:29 - 00:09:12]
That's very idiosyncratic according to the person. But what I like to do is to have a good conversation with somebody. I thrive because I like to talk to someone. So maybe at work I would schedule a time that I would visit with somebody that I liked at work for 15 or 20 minutes. Then to give me more energy, it's key to at the end of the workday, to do something that energizes you, so you carry that energy into the home. So organizing your workday so you do boring things that you don't like in the middle of the day, but do some energizing things at the end so you can carry that energy into the home is an important concept there.[00:09:12 - 00:09:44]
I think I'd even heard a story of a father that before he would walk in the house, he would have some pump me up music or just work on his thought process on the drive home. So when he walked in the door, there was just a positive energy and a. Of course, for women, it could be the same thing. That's not a gendered thing, whether you're the one at home receiving your spouse, or whether you're the one who's been at work and coming in. I like that idea that if we can control our thoughts, we can control the energy in our. In our family and in our home. That's really great.[00:09:44 - 00:09:55]
See, and I got pumped up before work because I had to to go to work every day. Sometimes I listen to Eye of the Tiger on my way to work, so I get pumped up.[00:09:55 - 00:10:57]
The other thing that's really important is to work flexibly, to be able to do things when they make sense, where they make sense to do them. So my research showed that when companies would give employees flexibility in when and where they were, that enhanced both their family satisfaction, their work satisfaction, and their work productivity. So basically my research in the early 1990s at IBM, we went from having one telecommuter, who was me, I was the first telecommuter at IBM, to having 150,000 individuals who worked flexibly. Because what we found is that it enhanced productivity and it also helped family life and it reduced office costs. And so it was a win, win, win, and worked out. And that was way before COVID Everybody started Covid, but we were doing that 30 years ago. Wow.[00:10:58 - 00:11:12]
I love the whole life perspective that you give there, that it's taking in home, it's taking in family, but it's also helpful to the business as business owners. Those are some things to consider.[00:11:12 - 00:11:15]
Yeah, very interesting.[00:11:15 - 00:11:21]
So tell us a little bit then about some of your research on financial management within families.[00:11:21 - 00:13:22]
The key in money management is that money is a tool for something that's greater. It's not an end in and of itself. When a husband and a wife together see money as joint resources that are used for something that is really valued, like family life, it works out well. It's very interesting that in my research on family life, it doesn't really matter how much money you make once you get about twice the poverty level. As far as your happiness goes, if you have sufficient for your needs, being able to fulfill the wants doesn't add much to your happiness. What adds to your happiness is when money is not stressful. So when we looked at the different variables related to marital satisfaction or divorce, it was almost unrelated to how much money you make what was related is how much stress do you experience related to that money. And there are plenty of people who were doctors and making a lot of money that felt lots of stress and money was negative impact. So, of course, the basic things reduced stress is budgeting, for example, when you spend money, you know that you have it and you're not going needlessly into debt. That reduces stress. But particularly with marriage, it reduces stress. When marriage partners aren't on the same page and they have a common view of marriage and that they trust each other financially. Trust is really the heart of a good relationship. And so when you trust your spouse with something you really care about, like money, it really shows that you trust, and that's good for the marriage.[00:13:25 - 00:14:58]
So, Jeff, you know, I'm sitting here thinking about all these excellent points you're making. I thought that I was a good budgeter earlier in my life. I thought I was. And then we had this epiphany. Probably about 15 years ago, we started learning about Dave Ramsey's approach to budgeting. And it was like this aha moment where we had every dollar had a name on it, had to be responsible each dollar. And I know a lot of other people teach similar themes, but, you know, it's interesting because I use myself as an example. I thought I was doing it well before, and even now, like, we. We've really ratcheted up our financial responsibility. And yet I talk to people, and the response is, well, we have a budget. I got a budget. And yet when you dive deep, you realize there's a disconnect between what people think they have handled and what reality is. Part of that reality is two people working together, you know, because you now you have some. Somebody to bounce it off of. I don't know if you have any thoughts on how to increase insight.[00:14:58 - 00:15:36]
And. And what you have to be able to do is to talk about money. I mean, it's very much like sex as far as communicating. Talking about money is a taboo subject. And you have to be able to openly and safely talk about money without it devolving into a conflict or an argument. You have to be able to understand it's okay to agree to disagree about something. Now it's interesting. The major dilemma for finances couples is called the saver spender dilemma.[00:15:36 - 00:15:37]
Yeah.[00:15:37 - 00:17:57]
In any marriage, there's one person who's the saver who thinks their spouse spends too much, and there's one person who's a spender who thinks their spouse is a type. And navigating that difference is the Key to reducing the stress and conflict and the practical way of doing it is the budget. The budget is the arbitrary of the saver spender dilemma. So if you can get together and agree on a budget and agree that you're going to live within that budget and each spouse's wants are represented in the budget, then when a potential purchase comes up and it's in the budget, the saver can't say anything about it, it's in the budget, or if it's too much, it's over the budget, then the spender can't say anything about it. They can't do it because it's not in the budget. So that budget is really important for negotiating that. This is a marriage IQ podcast. And fundamentally those marriages where finances build the marriage and don't tear them down are those marriages where there is equal partnership. And that is that each spouse feels that they have access to all of the financial resources of the family, even if they weren't the one that earned the money. And the research shows that this is reflected when there are joint bank accounts, when I'll. The names of both spouses are on the titles to the car, when the mortgage is in both spouses name, when the husband might have a 401k and an IRA and the wife also has a 401 and IRA. And I work with a number of families where the wife is a stay at home mom. But the tax code is such that that person, even though they don't have income, can set up their own Roth IRA and the family can contribute to it. Not exhibits trust.[00:17:58 - 00:18:12]
Jeff, that is so controversial. I don't know. This is. This is really risky, man. However, I agree 100%.[00:18:12 - 00:18:26]
That's right. When we work with couples that are having financial issues, almost always one of the first questions that we ask them is, do you have balanced power with your finances?[00:18:26 - 00:18:35]
But see, they might not know what that means. What he's proposing is just that. I mean, you might ask that question, right?[00:18:36 - 00:18:46]
Yes, you're right. It's that you both know what the budget is. You both have access to all the bank accounts. You both have your names.[00:18:46 - 00:18:46]
Equal access.[00:18:47 - 00:18:47]
Yeah.[00:18:47 - 00:19:02]
Do you want to tell them our story? This is an apple. This is a new story. This just happened. We've been married 28 years now, and this is a proof positive that a thriving marriage, a scintillating marriage, is one that's always growing and changing.[00:19:02 - 00:19:02]
Right.[00:19:02 - 00:19:06]
We do a podcast together on marriages and we just made this change.[00:19:06 - 00:19:24]
And we talk about finances and balance power in finances. So this is a second marriage for me. And I think a little of the PTSD from my first marriage when I was young has led me to believe I need a freedom fund. I need a fund that nobody tells.[00:19:24 - 00:19:27]
Me how, including your new husband.[00:19:29 - 00:19:30]
Who'S.[00:19:30 - 00:19:32]
Been married to for 28 years.[00:19:32 - 00:20:16]
So I. Well, there were some issues early in our marriage over finances because I felt like I had no power and he was making all of the money. And it eventually led to us having just two budget items. And then I started working part time, and for whatever reason, we decided that I could have just my own account because he liked to tell me how to use the money that was in my budget or what I should or shouldn't be doing with it. And so for 28 years, I've had this account and me feel safe. But meantime, it wasn't until a conversation we had within the last three months.[00:20:17 - 00:20:26]
I told her some I feel statements. I. I feel or I felt not as intimate as I would like to feel.[00:20:26 - 00:20:27]
Right.[00:20:27 - 00:20:30]
Part of that is financial intimacy.[00:20:30 - 00:20:30]
Right.[00:20:30 - 00:20:42]
When we're truly financially intimate, as you eloquently put, that we share. And that's risky, but it's also very powerful.[00:20:42 - 00:21:00]
And also, while I thought my own account was keeping me safe, I also felt like I could not rely on him for providing anything for me. So I. I paid all of my own tuition for my Master's and my PhD degrees. I bought all of my own clothes.[00:21:00 - 00:21:01]
And they look bad.[00:21:01 - 00:21:03]
Well, you didn't even know some of it.[00:21:03 - 00:21:06]
Like, look, you can make me look better.[00:21:06 - 00:21:25]
So I didn't tap into that part of financial intimacy of letting him care for me either. And finally when we had that conversation and he. Some of the ways he felt. I realized some of the ways I felt were not bringing us closer, but were dividing us. Just last week, I closed that account down.[00:21:25 - 00:21:37]
And literally one week ago, no, this Sunday. We always do our budget on Sunday. And I'm like, what's this? She's like, oh, that's the last remaining remnants of my other account. I'm like, wow.[00:21:37 - 00:21:42]
And it was hard to call the bank and say, close this account, because just.[00:21:42 - 00:21:49]
And then I thought, let's savor this moment right now. Like, this is true intimacy. This is financial intimacy right now.[00:21:49 - 00:22:18]
Right? So, anyway, well, good for you. Good for me. Well, I can just tell you had some hard experiences previously, and so it's hard for you to trust. And you finally let go. He's proven himself enough that you're letting and letting him insane. And I mean, that was a powerful thing, wasn't it, for her to do that.[00:22:18 - 00:22:41]
Yeah. Who doesn't want to be safe, right? Like, we all want safety and security. Who doesn't? It is hard to give that up. I mean, it wasn't hard for me, but for her, I'm sure it was. But you must do so in order to see how. How deep you can go, how far you can go with intimacy.[00:22:41 - 00:22:42]
Right?[00:22:42 - 00:22:48]
That's true. And of course, the caveat is that your spouse really is trustworthy.[00:22:48 - 00:22:48]
Right.[00:22:49 - 00:22:55]
I mean, there could be circumstances where it would be prudent to do what you are doing.[00:22:55 - 00:22:56]
Right.[00:22:56 - 00:23:27]
That's why you are doing it, because you experienced where you needed to do it. Anyway, that's great. And another thing that you're doing that's great is it sounds like every week you're reviewing your finances. So with the transparency and you review every transaction every week, that solidifies the trust. I'll just mention a new area of research is called financial infidelity. When you make purchases that it's like sexual infidelity.[00:23:27 - 00:23:28]
Oh, yeah.[00:23:28 - 00:23:57]
You hide them and so forth. And the research is that financial infidelity is almost as bad for the marriage as sexual infidelity. So someone who would never think of committing adultery would. Would think, oh, I'm going to hide this purchase of a motorcycle or something, and it could be very damaging. But anyway, those are some of the highlights. As far as my financial and my work and family research, I'd have to.[00:23:57 - 00:25:02]
Back up and just say, I also think there's one thing that Jeff didn't talk about, which is a big part of financial intimacy for me, and that is when a couple works together and you set a goal for financially and you're. You're really both working to save that money to purchase whatever or to build that home or pay off that mortgage. That work that you're doing together is so cementing to the relationship. And so I. What I see in my therapy practice is a really trending now for young couples not to join bank accounts, but to keep them separate. And I always will say when you join your forces together and you do have to learn to trust, and that a lot of times takes a little evidence that you can trust someone. But there's such strength that can come to a marriage when you're setting goals and accomplishing those things together is you start creating your own story. It's so great.[00:25:02 - 00:25:14]
So are you saying whether you join accounts or whether you don't join accounts, as long as you are at least setting financial goals together, and having that shared vision.[00:25:15 - 00:25:20]
Vision. But I think that the joint bank accounts is best.[00:25:20 - 00:25:27]
So you're. You're definitely saying you're agreeing with your husband, then, that a joint account is best?[00:25:27 - 00:25:27]
Yes.[00:25:28 - 00:26:08]
Which is, again, that. That is risky. And I think you make a good point about folks, perhaps younger generation, who want that intimacy, but also want the individuality. And I think what we're saying here is that you gotta learn how to take a chance. Trust and verify, of course. And don't be stupid. But I think at the end of the day, what we're all saying here is that we gotta take a little bit of a chance.[00:26:08 - 00:26:36]
Yeah. I can see definitely some danger. Like, Scott always had access to my account if he ever wanted to look and see what I was spending. But I can see there are some real risks, too, to just being totally autonomous with money. But I do love your idea of having something that you're working towards together. Can you give us an example of something that you two have really worked together?[00:26:36 - 00:27:16]
Well, thinking of my late husband, actually. Is that all right if I tell it different now? We really felt strongly back in 1998 that we could get out of debt and pay off our home. And so together, we had a plan of action. I went to being very careful in what I sent to manage our home, and we put our savings together, and we ended up, in about three years, paying off our home completely. And we didn't have a clue that three months later, he would die of a massive heart attack unexpectedly.[00:27:17 - 00:27:17]
Wow.[00:27:17 - 00:28:00]
Wow. It was tragic. So tragic. And yet when I look back on it, where those feelings that we had to get our mortgage paid off together and the. The goal that we set to work together to make this happen, and the. The accomplishment and the strength that that brought to our marriage, not only just financially, but in the bedroom and every other way is like our teamwork was uniting in new, powerful ways. And then he was gone. And I look back now, and I think, miraculous. Well, it was miraculous. And I'm so grateful that this tragic situation could have been so much worse.[00:28:01 - 00:28:01]
Right.[00:28:01 - 00:28:24]
You know, so much worse if I hadn't been. We hadn't been prepared the way that we were. So I went back to that season of our marriage. Yeah. We didn't spend extra money on dates, and we didn't go on long trips or do extravagant clothing or anything during that time because we have this united goal. And. And we were still so darn happy because we were accomplishing that goal together.[00:28:24 - 00:28:25]
Wow.[00:28:25 - 00:28:45]
Oh, that's great. That leads us to Jeff Tell us a little bit about your research on how money impacts the bedroom and the bedroom impacts money. I don't know which way your research went, but tell us some of your findings from when you added in that aspect of marriage relationships.[00:28:45 - 00:30:51]
So the bottom line is that they all impact each other. But specifically, though, financial stressors negatively affect marriage satisfaction and marital stability. And there's lots of research that has shown that. But the new news is when you throw sex in there, sexual dissatisfaction impacts financial dissatisfaction and it impacts marital satisfaction. It goes both ways. They are interrelated. They uniquely have an effect on marital satisfaction and marital stability, but they also impact each other. And so again, as I mentioned, with finances, it wasn't the problems that you have, it's the perceived stress that you have related to those problems. And I think it's also the same way with sexuality. And so how do you make it so that you experience less stress with the situation? And I think communication is a really important factor that you talk through things. When you're having financial difficulty, you feel like you're a team that's attacking the problem instead of pointing fingers at each other and blaming on whose fault it is. And so basically, the unique thing about this research is that there are also pathways that if you experience a lot of work, family conflict, your job is bringing stress, it negatively affects both your financial satisfaction and your sexual satisfaction. So they're all linked together. And since that time, it's been opened as an avenue of research, and we think that it's a natural fit. I know for me it was a natural fit. If you get good help in the bedroom, it's actually going to help your finances.[00:30:52 - 00:30:57]
So how does it help your finances and Tammy, you can answer. Or Jeff? Either one.[00:30:58 - 00:31:02]
Well, if he leaves me a good tip afterwards, I'm always happy.[00:31:02 - 00:31:07]
I didn't know you could ask for tips. Oh, that's funny.[00:31:07 - 00:31:22]
If you have a very good marital intimacy, it's very satisfying. It brings you together as a couple and as you're together in the couple. And that it's easier to feel like with financial difficulty that you're on the same team.[00:31:22 - 00:31:37]
Budgeting for fun trips where you can get away together and really spend quality time sexually, I think is one way that budgeting and financial management can bless your sex life.[00:31:37 - 00:31:43]
Do you budget for anything that really increases intimacy besides trips?[00:31:44 - 00:31:59]
Yeah, if you want to come to making love retreat, if you want to go to marriage clinic where they're talking specifically about intimacy and things, then absolutely. I think planning for those types of retreat is A good idea too.[00:31:59 - 00:32:16]
And absolutely Cameron was getting into this field, wanted to learn from the best. And so she wanted to go to Switzerland to Diana Richardson and her partner. They do a I'm making love or cheat in Switzerland for seven days.[00:32:16 - 00:32:20]
Tantric says that's on our, our bucket list.[00:32:20 - 00:32:46]
And it was so great, but it's quite pricey. And so we know what we do is out of the budget each month we put X dollars into an Acorns investment account and that's just money there we could use. And so we didn't have to go out of our regular budget. We just had that account that we could then go to Switzerland and have a life changing experience there.[00:32:46 - 00:33:13]
That's so awesome. So Tammy, this leads right into some of the things that you've developed, some of the things that you've learned, some of the things that you teach about sex and intimacy and you have developed the replenishment model or the replenishment framework. Can you explain that to us a little bit?[00:33:13 - 00:34:40]
Yes. I am a Christian woman and when I was studying about the creation, it talks about multiply and replenish the earth when it was being created. And it was really an eye opening study one day probably 10 years ago, 11 years ago, when I realized that the animals were commanded to multiply, but the Adam and Eve were commanded to multiply, light and replenish. And it's like a light bulb, honestly went on in my mind and I thought, wow, this is a cool way to view sexuality rather than just creating life, also creating energy that can replenish and fortify a marriage, to have the goodness and the fun and that, that energy that can come from wonderful, passionate love and to be able to pour that energy into the work of a home and family, which as you know, is very labor intensive. And I think my whole life changed around that one study because I went on to write my book called Replenish. I created making love retreats that are all virtual now that couple can come and attend and I teach them and give homework for how they can learn to make love in a way that's replenishing to their marriages. And it's, it's been really fun.[00:34:41 - 00:34:48]
So give us a little teaser then. What are the differences between just having sex and having a replenishing type of sex?[00:34:49 - 00:35:57]
So that's such a great question. And I think a lot of people, especially in the western world, so much of our focus sexually and towards orgasm and often with our time restraint that we have in again in the Western world where we've got 20 minutes. Let's make it happen. It's not going to work for most women most of the time to be able to have any type of replenishing experience in that amount of time. And so for couples to be planful in creating time for her to enjoy and be able to come through the arousal threshold and stay high up before orgasming and not have it be so orgasm focused, the more that we can help women in particular understand and embrace their arousal and hold on to that passionate faith for a little while, I think the happier they are not only in their marriages, but the happier they are as women, as mothers.[00:35:58 - 00:36:55]
I, I think I'm looking at like perspectives, right? There's the forest perspective and the tree perspective here. And I like how you're mentioning that we live in a kind of an orgasmic state that doesn't necessarily need to end in orgasm, but that we just kind of live more in that state instead of something that we're trying to achieve and accomplish, which is a very western idea. And I think there are definitely some pros to that in a lot of situations. But also considering this other, maybe a more eastern approach of mindfulness, of just living in a state of sexuality or orgasmic state without actually orgasm is. Is that. Would you agree with that or 100.[00:36:55 - 00:37:46]
Yeah. I think that as couples learn. So we have the orgasm threshold here and the arousal threshold here. And between this space, there's a lot that can happen over a course of a long period of time, as long as you allow it to stay that way as we stay in this place more without it being so goal oriented to orgasm. But that it's just this good eros, energy flowing between the two of you that can happen for however long in the bedroom, but then come outside of the bedroom and do the things that you need to be doing and then come back in and it just this wonderful place of living that is so generous and kind and lovely. It's just a lovely way to live.[00:37:47 - 00:38:04]
So for people who have never been in that orgasmic state, that state of arousal over a fairly long period of time, you said there's a lot that happens in there that can happen in there. Can you explain what that might look like?[00:38:04 - 00:39:08]
You can become aroused and not feel like you need to go ahead for an orgasm, or you can go ahead and go for an orgasm. Either way, however, what happens is when we are orgasm focused and driven, typically we get satiated. And it's a period of time, especially in monogamous relationships, before a couple feel the need and want to get together again. Staying in this framework of being aware, of feeling that flirty energy. Maybe a lot of times you felt, even early in your relationship before you were sexually active, that feeling of anticipation of, I can't wait to see him or her, I'm so excited to make out tonight. Or just that energy and chemistry that you often felt early in relationship, a lot of that energy is just there if we make our love. Making more about being in this tantric, Eastern mindset rather than always driven by a goal.[00:39:09 - 00:39:33]
So I just want to see if I understand, like, you're talking about the stages of arousal. And so you're saying instead of being aroused for like 10 to 20 minutes, however long sex lasts. And maybe you have an orgasm or not. Maybe you're talking about just living in that stage one or two of arousal all the time. I mean, all the time.[00:39:33 - 00:39:34]
Is that what you're.[00:39:34 - 00:39:46]
Is that what you're saying? Like you're just living a state of a little bit of arousal, like very frequently? Is that kind of what you're saying? Or. I just want to make sure I understand.[00:39:46 - 00:40:04]
So when we orgasm, just so you understand, when we orgasm, we expend energy. It feels great. We've got. Our bodies are contracting, we have this wonderful high and then we go right back down again. And that energy has been spread, spent.[00:40:04 - 00:40:05]
Okay.[00:40:05 - 00:40:22]
When we are living in an orgasmic state, the energy is never spent. It just kind of continues to flow. That doesn't mean that you're walking around with an erection all day long, however. You just have that awareness and that energy that is more readily accessible.[00:40:22 - 00:40:38]
It sounds like that's kind of what I'm saying, because an erection comes later in the process. I'm taught just like that. Stage one or two even, or like you said, you're living in a flirtatious state with each other, which starts with.[00:40:38 - 00:40:46]
How you treat each other first thing in the morning and how you treat each other coming and going, thoughtfulness, generosity.[00:40:47 - 00:40:57]
Assuming the best in one another. And to me, living in this faith is just so. It's just so generous and good. Do you want to add something?[00:40:57 - 00:41:44]
I want to just say from my personal experience, that orgasmic state, you know, that Tammy's talking about. For me, it means that I'm thinking about Tammy a lot more. It's like when we're first dating, I'm thinking, oh, yeah, we're going to be able to get together tonight. And I'm thinking about her more frequently than like, right after we've had a typical Western sexual experience. I feel just exhaust, you know, happy, but just. And then I'm on to other things in life. I'm not thinking about Phil as much anymore. It's just something that. It just keeps her in this orgasmic state. I'm thinking about her. I'm thinking more about what could I do that would make her happy.[00:41:44 - 00:41:49]
It's kind of like being in a boyfriend, girlfriend, date. I love that.[00:41:50 - 00:41:56]
Right. That Twitter painted kind of, but more type of relationship. Yeah.[00:41:56 - 00:42:03]
So that gets back to curiosity. That is insight. That's one of our four cornerstones. Well, I don't know you.[00:42:04 - 00:42:54]
Yeah. And what comes to my mind, what I've heard the theme be that both of you have talked about, is our happiness or our. Maybe even deeper than happiness. Contentment with both money and. And sex and our energy for both has so much to do with our mindset, the thoughts that we think, what we're looking for. Are we looking for the best in each other? Are we looking for positive energy in our work, in our. In our home, in our marriage relationship, in our sexual experience? Or are we being critical and coming from more a place of not having enough or not having what we want instead of a place of abundance? Is that true? Am I detecting a theme here?[00:42:54 - 00:44:04]
Yeah, it's a place of abundance. It's a place of, like I mentioned, generosity. Flower. Blaine Flowers is a researcher on marriage and he talks about the importance of couples and the success of couples who have generous attitudes towards one another, that they give each other the benefit of the doubt and are thinking of one another kindly and anticipating time that they can share together. And I. I think the more that I see in the work that I do, not that real life doesn't go on and not that you're going to have never any frustrations or anymore, or that you're never going to orgasm again. I. I think people get too extreme. But when we can start bundling and putting some of this energy here in this way that we've been talking, look what happens. The goodness that happens in a home. What are our children seeing that marriage is all about? Are they seeing that mom and dad actually kind of like being together, that they like each other, that they talk nicely about each other, that they can't wait to kiss each other. To me, it's just real, real true love.[00:44:04 - 00:44:38]
I love the term generosity. I think I like that much better than abundant in these experiences because then abundance comes from how I'm thinking about my own experience. Right. But generosity is. I'm thinking about what I'm giving to my partner from a place of abundance, perhaps what I am doing because of the deep love, the intimate expression in our finances, our intellectual pursuits, in our spiritual pursuits, in our physical pursuits. All of those.[00:44:38 - 00:45:11]
Yeah. It's a way that for many men in particular, thinking of the idea of not being as orgasm focused in sexuality is sometimes a little bit of a challenge. However, really mature men genuinely enjoy their wife's pleasure, and it brings to them a lot of pleasure. When we have men that are like that, we're going to have a big turnaround in the bedroom where it's just goodness all around for both.[00:45:11 - 00:45:12]
That's good.[00:45:12 - 00:45:33]
One of our missions here at Marriage IQ is to educate men on how to treat their wives in the bedroom in a way that really helps them. And your book actually has been really a landmark, helping us.[00:45:33 - 00:46:03]
Yeah. And I do like, Tammy, some of the practical tips that you give on becoming grounded, because I think especially for women, but probably also for men, it's really easy to get caught up in our thoughts and not be present in the sexual experience, which keeps us from reaching our sexual potential. Can you give a few practical tips on what you've seen in your clinical practice or in your classes that could help our listeners?[00:46:03 - 00:46:17]
You bet. I think coming into the bedroom, as you come in, one of the number one things I encourage couples to do is take care of hygiene, brush your teeth, have a bath, get clean so that you're feeling confident.[00:46:17 - 00:46:22]
Smelling good, practical, profound and profound.[00:46:22 - 00:46:23]
Okay.[00:46:23 - 00:47:57]
Just get that done. And then come to bed, be naked, set the tone with nice lighting, beautiful music, good sheets, whatever you want. But then before you even start touching each other, do some real closing your eyes, internally breathing, putting everything outside of the bedroom. Because if your head doesn't come to bed, you're not going to have a pleasurable time. And so you can really focus in and breathe. And look at this. And this is hard for many women who feel like they have to take care of their men and provide this experience for their husband. But if you can really tune in to what am I feeling? What's the pleasure that I'm going to experience and. And really breathe deeply into my senses long before you turn towards each other and start gazing. I think gazing is a really imperative way to start a lovemaking session. As you gaze into one another's eyes and breathe deeply. And they say the eyes are the window to the soul. And there's times when I'm gazing in Jeff's eyes that I feel like I know him more fully than at any other time. And once you kind of get your brain there, your body's clean, you're gazing, then things a lot of times will just naturally start flowing from soft touch kissing to a little more passionate kissing, pulling back, gazing some more. And those are probably would be where I would suggest starting out the entire experience.[00:47:57 - 00:47:59]
But Tammy.[00:47:59 - 00:47:59]
Yes.[00:48:00 - 00:48:07]
Have you ever tried gazing into your spouse's eyes for more than 10 seconds? I mean, that's really scary.[00:48:08 - 00:48:09]
He's being facetious because.[00:48:09 - 00:48:33]
No, I'm not being facetious. For us, we do it all the time. This is fundamental. We found in our experience that eye gaze, like when we have other people try to do it, it's hard. It's really, really hard. Like 10 seconds is like. I think just acknowledging eye gaze is a very vulnerable, highly vulnerable and intimate, but very important.[00:48:34 - 00:49:00]
Very important things that are hard are worth doing. And I think it's okay to know that this might be really vulnerable and scary. And it's all right to close your eyes, deep breathe, then open your eyes and try a little bit longer. And maybe you giggle a little bit and it really makes you nervous. But then just breathe deeply, close your eyes, open your eyes and spend a little more time. It will get easier.[00:49:00 - 00:49:03]
Sounds like me riding a roller coaster.[00:49:03 - 00:49:16]
Look, it took us, it took us a long time to get to even a couple of minutes. If you'd set a timer, two minutes is a long time. But that's really good advice to just maybe work up to it little by little. Yeah, I like it.[00:49:16 - 00:49:44]
Yeah. What a conversation this has been. And we've covered so much ground today from money and, and how we can be more connected than we ever thought. How couples can get on the same page in both areas. We, we appreciate and thank you so much for sharing your expertise. Do you have any last words on either topic that our listeners might benefit from?[00:49:45 - 00:50:05]
I say if it, if like the gazing you mentioned, it's hard to do or saving money or getting in a budget or, or whatever, it's hard to do. But in my life, I found anything worth doing is worth giving a little. I mean, if you really want to have the joy from something, it's worth putting the effort in.[00:50:05 - 00:50:07]
Yes, absolutely.[00:50:07 - 00:50:17]
Communicate that you're on the same team or miss that you're both want the same thing. So I'm so grateful that I'm married to somebody that I feel that way about.[00:50:17 - 00:50:18]
Me too.[00:50:18 - 00:50:24]
Right. A. Thank you so much. So before we go, where can our listeners find you and learn more about your work?[00:50:25 - 00:50:42]
I have a website, tammy hill.com find on Instagram. Tammy underscore hill underscore LMFT. I. Oh y m m y. Underscore hill underscore LMFT, which stands for licensed marriage and family therapist.[00:50:43 - 00:50:43]
Okay.[00:50:44 - 00:50:48]
And I have several books replenish as for adults.[00:50:48 - 00:50:50]
We read it every week.[00:50:51 - 00:50:51]
Thank you.[00:50:51 - 00:50:56]
Tammy is the rock star. My Instagram is joyfully within your means.[00:50:57 - 00:50:58]
Okay, great.[00:50:58 - 00:51:02]
And they can follow you for great sound money. Finance tips.[00:51:02 - 00:51:03]
Yeah.[00:51:03 - 00:51:18]
Budgeting tips. That's great. For all of our listeners, we'd really love to hear your thoughts on what you've heard today. What's one insight from this episode that really stood out to you? Drop us a message or join the conversation on social media.[00:51:18 - 00:51:45]
And if you're on YouTube, make sure that you like or and or subscribe and leave us a message on there too. We'd love to hear from you. So we'll be back next time with more insights to help you build a stronger, smarter and more connected marriage. Until then, take care and remember, to change from a stinky to a scintillating marriage first requires a change in yourself.
