Episode 129: 5 Ways to Build a Deeper, More Passionate Marriage
The Truth About Love Most Couples Overlook
Radical Love: The Kind of Marriage That Changes Everything
Let’s be honest—most marriages don’t fall apart because love is gone. They struggle because love stays… but it becomes routine. Predictable. Surface-level.
You can be kind. You can communicate. You can even go on date nights. And still feel like something is missing.
That “something” might be what we’ll call radical love.
Radical love isn’t about doing more—it’s about going deeper.
What Radical Love Is Not
Before we define radical love, it helps to clear up what it isn’t.
Because here’s the surprising truth: a lot of things we think equal a great marriage don’t necessarily create deep connection.
Serving your spouse is good—but it can be done out of duty or resentment.
Kindness matters—but you can be kind without feeling deeply connected.
Communication is essential—but talking about logistics isn’t the same as emotional intimacy.
Sex can be meaningful—but it doesn’t automatically create closeness.
Spending time together is important—but presence matters more than proximity.
None of these are bad. In fact, they’re all part of a healthy relationship.
But radical love? It goes further.
It transforms how you show up, not just what you do.
The 5 Pillars of Radical Love
1. Be Fully Present
Radical love starts with presence.
Not half-listening while scrolling your phone. Not nodding while thinking about your to-do list.
Real presence means:
Eye contact
Emotional awareness
Undivided attention
Sometimes, it doesn’t even require words.
It’s sitting next to your partner when they’re struggling… and letting them feel that you’re there.
That kind of presence builds safety—and safety builds connection.
2. Commit—Even When It’s Hard
Commitment sounds simple. But radical commitment? That’s different.
It means:
Staying through the hard seasons
Working through conflict instead of avoiding it
Choosing your partner again and again
Real commitment isn’t about clinging to a broken version of your relationship. It’s about being willing to rebuild it—together.
Sometimes, that means letting go of the old marriage and creating a new one with the same person.
That’s not easy. But it’s powerful.
3. Rediscover Passion
Passion isn’t just about physical attraction—it’s about emotional energy.
It’s:
Wanting to understand your partner deeply
Thinking about how to bring them joy
Savoring moments together instead of rushing through them
Over time, many couples assume passion fades.
But often, it’s not gone—it’s just been neglected.
Radical love invites you to reimagine passion:
Slow down
Be intentional
Notice your partner again
Because passion grows where attention goes.
4. Stay Curious
One of the fastest ways to disconnect in a relationship?
Assuming you already know everything about your partner.
Curiosity keeps love alive.
It sounds like:
“What’s been on your mind lately?”
“How did that make you feel?”
“What are you dreaming about right now?”
People change. Life changes. Your relationship changes.
Radical love means staying open to discovering who your partner is today—not who they were years ago.
And maybe just as important: being curious instead of critical.
5. Practice Non-Judgment
This is the deepest level of radical love.
It’s choosing to see your partner—not as a problem to fix—but as a person to understand.
Non-judgment means:
Letting go of constant criticism
Dropping assumptions about their intentions
Accepting them fully—strengths, flaws, and all
It doesn’t mean ignoring real issues.
It means approaching them with compassion instead of blame.
When someone feels accepted, they open up.
And when they open up, connection grows.
Why Radical Love Feels Risky
Let’s be real—this kind of love can feel uncomfortable.
It requires:
Vulnerability
Emotional effort
Letting go of control
It asks more of you than routine love ever will.
But that’s also why it works.
Because the best relationships aren’t built on convenience.
They’re built on intention.
Bringing Radical Love Into Everyday Life
You don’t need to overhaul your marriage overnight.
Start small.
This week, try one of these:
Sit with your partner and just listen—no interruptions
Ask a question you’ve never asked before
Plan something different from your usual routine
Show affection in a way you normally wouldn’t
Pause before reacting—and choose curiosity instead of judgment
These moments might seem small.
But they add up.
Love That Goes Beyond the Marriag
Here’s the unexpected part: radical love doesn’t stop with your spouse.
It spills into everything.
How you treat strangers
How you respond to stress
How you show up in everyday interactions
When you practice deeper love at home, it reshapes how you see the world.
Final Thought
You don’t need a perfect marriage.
You need a real one.
One where you:
Show up fully
Stay committed
Keep learning each other
Choose compassion over criticism
Radical love isn’t about being extreme.
It’s about being intentional.
And when you lean into it—even a little—you might find your relationship becoming something more than just “good.”
Something deeper.
More meaningful.
More alive.
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0:00
Defining Radical Love and Personal Experiences
You can be kind to a lot of people, but being kind doesn't mean that you're passionately in love with them, or even that you're compassionate with them.
Radical love, though, requires A deeper, more committed level of communication, he said.
0:16
Tell the court I love my wife and it is just unfair that I can't live with her in Virginia.
Let me ask you something.
When was the last time you made passionate love to your spouse?
When?
Let's reimagine passion again.
0:34
Welcome to Marriage IQ, the podcast helping you become an intelligent spouse.
0:40
Speaker 2
I'm Heidi Hastings.
0:41
Speaker 1
And I'm Scott Hastings.
0:43
Speaker 2
We are two doctors, 2 researchers, 2 spouses, 2 lovers, and two incredibly different human beings coming together for one purpose, to change the stinky parts of your marriage into scintillating ones using intelligence mixed with a little fun.
1:05
Speaker 1
Hello everyone and welcome back to the fastest growing marriage podcast hosted by two doctors in the Universe podcast where we are saving civilization one marriage at a time, where we are making marriage scintillating again.
1:22
We love all of you and hope you feel that from us, your loyal hosts here at Marriage IQ Today.
We want to take a little radical route here on and talking about five points of what radical love means.
I was writing our Christmas letter, which I love to do every year, and I spoke about how I want to start loving more radically.
1:46
Speaker 2
What would you to decide that?
1:47
Speaker 1
Just getting down to the nuts and bolts of life.
1:51
Speaker 2
That's where making a difference in the world comes.
Is that radical love?
And.
1:54
Speaker 1
Just wanting to do things deeper, more meaningfully.
1:57
Speaker 2
Think your teeth into it.
1:58
Speaker 1
Yeah, more memorable, just something that that is just bigger than myself.
And I decided to take this thought, this theme of radical love, and I've made a bumper sticker.
I put it on my car.
2:14
Speaker 2
Oh, you didn't just order 1, you had it made.
2:16
Speaker 1
Yes I had it made.
You can have it specially made for like 5 bucks.
It's not that big of a deal.
2:21
Speaker 2
What is that done for you?
Well.
2:24
Speaker 1
It says love radically, and so I tell everyone around me when I drive, wherever I go to love radically and it's interesting because I know it's there.
I act differently when I'm in traffic.
I act differently when I interact with people because I know that they're going to be looking at my bumper and I want them to feel like I am loving in a different way.
2:46
I'm a different person.
2:47
Speaker 2
That you're consistent with what you're professing to be.
2:50
Speaker 1
Yes, I'm consistent with what I want to share with the world, and that is radical love, my love.
We talked about love in Episode 8.
3:00
Speaker 2
It's been a while.
3:01
Speaker 1
Ago as a while ago, What's love got to do with it That exploring love and marriage.
And if you haven't listened to that one episode 8, please go listen to it.
3:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's audio only.
3:12
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Oh, that's back before we did video.
3:14
Speaker 2
Old days.
3:15
Speaker 1
Back in the old days.
Today we're going a step further with this.
We're going deeper.
We're going broader, more comprehensive.
Honey, why do you think people might feel a little bit nervous about this word radical?
3:29
Speaker 2
That is a word that we typically use to describe people on the fringes.
3:34
Speaker 1
OK.
3:35
Speaker 2
People who are a little scary, people who are very different than us.
3:40
Speaker 1
All right, so.
3:42
Speaker 2
That's my guess.
What do you think?
3:43
Speaker 1
I think that's a great guess.
That's probably would be my guess too.
And I before I kind of thought of this whole idea, this concept, I probably would have said the same thing.
You might be out there saying, but Doctor Hastings, I'm afraid, I'm scared here.
Radical.
It's way over on the fringes like you were saying or here to say, it's OK to be scared.
4:03
It's OK to feel that way.
Just hold our hands.
We'll reach out, take your hand, hold our hand today with this.
We'll walk you through it.
4:10
Speaker 2
I think it is a little bit.
It's risky because it does require more from us than the way that we're used to, right?
It requires us to see people differently.
Yeah.
It requires a change of heart.
4:25
Speaker 1
Indeed, I really like that.
So what exactly is loving Radically?
I remember when I was on my mission, I served a mission for our church when I was 19 years old and I've lived two years in South Carolina.
Now, if any of you are from South Carolina or know where that is, it's in the Bible Belt area.
4:43
And we talked to a lot of pastors and ministers.
Christian, very, very Christian.
We ourselves are Christian as well, but most other denominations have problems with us calling ourselves Christian.
4:59
But in any case, so there's a little bit of animosity just from the outset, like what we believe, what they believe.
But I remember even as a 19 year old, I reached out intentionally and there's one of our four cornerstones to some of the leaders of these other churches.
5:16
And we made the rounds, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Jehovah's Witness, all the way around, many different churches, non denominational churches, country churches, even the black churches in the inner city.
5:31
And so we met with leaders of these churches and most of them were very gracious and they would invite us up.
Others wanted to debate and challenge us.
And I remember I made it a very specific goal for me that before we were done, that I would tell these people who are trying to argue with me about why our religion is not true that I love them.
5:53
And every time I did that, their count is completely changed, totally changed.
And there's kind of backpedaled.
So when you instill love into a situation that may otherwise be contentious, it's amazing to see what happens.
6:11
And every time that happened, and I told them that I loved them, we walked away as friends, not converting each other or not trying to bring each other to the each other side.
But just as is common, people together sharing a feeling of connection in our humanity, that's.
6:30
Speaker 2
Really awesome.
One of my favorite things to do when I interact with people of different faiths than me, whether it's Christian, Muslim, Jewish, is to find the things that we have in common.
Yeah, not our differences, but let's talk about what we have in common.
6:47
And that always ends in love and closer relationship in unity than talking about our differences.
Makes me think of when we went to Israel a few years ago and we made arrangements ahead of time to have our family have dinner with a Palestinian family.
7:11
And then the next night we had dinner at the home of a Jewish rabbi.
And both of them, we loved the people that we ate with.
We heard their stories, we saw their humanity.
We learned of their lives and their children and their experiences.
7:29
And that to me was probably one of the most influential experiences that we've had with radical love, just learning, non judgement, but to see them as an equal, not above, not below, but just friends and humanity.
7:46
Speaker 1
I love that.
7:47
Beyond the Basics: Understanding What Radical Love Isn't
So, you know, to help define what radical love is, let's talk about what it is not.
OK?
Now, these things did not mean that you don't love your spouse, OK?
But what I am saying is radical love is so much more than just this.
8:03
And I would be willing to bet that most of you heard most of these a lot.
OK, so one is to serve your spouse.
Now, serving your spouse is a loving act.
8:14
Speaker 2
But interested to hear what you're going to say here, because when I hear it makes me bristle that you're saying that's not radical.
8:22
Speaker 1
Love.
Well, you can serve your spouse all day long and not be practicing radical love.
You can be practicing love and that is wonderful.
8:30
Speaker 2
Like if it's doing it with resentment or with.
8:34
Speaker 1
Yeah, you could do it.
Yes, you could do it out of duty.
Resentment doesn't matter.
Serving is just that act of your sacrifice for your spouse.
That's loving, but it's not radical love.
Being kind to your spouse?
What?
8:47
Speaker 2
That's not radical love, No.
You better explain yourself on that one too.
You can be.
Sounds a little out of character.
8:54
Speaker 1
You can be kind to a lot of people, but being kind doesn't mean that you're passionately in love with them, or even that you're compassionate with them.
You can do something and be kind but not internalize that kindness or that feeling like you were just explaining.
9:12
And when we went to Israel, this was far deeper.
Kindness is great, don't get me wrong.
But today we are digging deep.
We're not surface dwellers.
So a third way is this isn't radical love communication.
9:26
Speaker 2
OK, what do you tell us?
These are all a little out there.
9:30
Speaker 1
All right, so again, these are all parts of a normal, healthy marriage relationship, OK, Part of love.
Radical love, though, requires just a deeper, more committed level of communication that is not quite explained by the word communication.
9:47
Speaker 2
So I guess you can communicate with each other about who's taking the kids and dropping them off at school or at practices or lessons.
You can communicate about the calendar for the week, but not have that.
10:01
Speaker 1
Yes, not get to that deeper level and maybe not even know about it.
OK, maybe you don't even know about it at all.
10:08
Speaker 2
OK, I'm starting to follow you here.
10:10
Speaker 1
Sex is another thing that's not radical love.
10:13
Speaker 2
Not necessarily.
10:14
Speaker 1
Wait, Doctor Hastings, what you guys talk about that?
That's wonderful?
It is.
Look, all of these things are wonderful by themselves, but do you want nice?
Did you want even wonderful, or do you want scintillating?
If you want scintillating, stick with us because we want to get to scintillating.
10:32
A lot of people have sex in their marriage and it is not scintillating.
10:37
Speaker 2
They don't feel deeply, closely connected.
10:39
Speaker 1
Right.
But duty thing again, going back to the servicing your spouse, being kind, all these things that are nice but not scintillating.
10:49
Speaker 2
OK, what's what's the last one?
10:52
Speaker 1
Doing stuff together?
Hey, let's go on a date night.
What date nights are so important?
Of course they are.
But just because you go on date night doesn't mean you're expressing radical love for your spouse.
11:02
Speaker 2
OK, so let me see if I'm getting what you're saying.
Doing something like going to dinner and watching a movie where you hardly talk to each other.
You're together, but you're not discussing the movie or talking on the way because you're on your phones.
Things like that would not be be radical love.
11:19
It would be a ritual.
It would be.
11:21
Speaker 1
It would be a ritual, exactly.
11:23
Speaker 2
Time spent together, but not deeply.
And it could.
11:26
Speaker 1
Be love too, just not radical love.
11:28
Speaker 2
And does it have to be radical love every time?
11:30
Speaker 1
No.
OK, That is a great point, my love.
OK, Radical love is not always in forever, but it needs to be broached on occasions.
OK.
We need to reach that level.
And a lot of times we don't even know what we don't know.
So what we're trying to do is help you know what you don't know today.
11:48
The Power of Being Fully Present with Your Spouse
So we're going to talk about these five points today in detail.
And it's interesting because you could probably think of a lot of other things.
These are from my brain, and I will tell you why.
Let's start with #5 first, I don't know if this is in a particular order, but I do like one and two a whole lot.
12:06
So maybe it is an order.
They're all important.
Let's be honest.
This is why I picked the top five.
I had a meta thinking session to try to get to the highest level I could.
12:16
Speaker 2
So this is Doctor Scott Hastings top meta.
12:20
Speaker 1
Level.
12:21
Speaker 2
Ways to be showing radical love in marriage.
12:25
Speaker 1
#5 being present, not giving presents, but being present with you.
Though this takes in the communication, but it also implies I am fully invested with you right now, at this moment.
12:44
My eyes are engaged with your eyes.
Normally my shoulders would be engaged with your shoulders.
We are present, I am listening, I'm with you and you can feel it.
This requires intentionality.
It's hard sometimes to stop what I'm doing, stop what I'm working on and be 100% here with you and to be fully aware of of your thoughts that you share, your feelings that you share so you feel safe enough with me that you can share your intermals feelings.
13:17
That's being present.
And the other thing is it doesn't necessarily require words.
I may just simply sit with you.
You can feel my support and depending on the situation may not even need to use words.
13:30
Speaker 2
But sometimes you should probably not just assume that you don't need to say words.
13:36
Speaker 1
Right.
I'm just saying words aren't always necessary.
So in a study by John Gottman on couples who stayed highly emotionally present with each other, and they found those who did had better marital outcomes than those who didn't.
13:53
That's not really surprising.
So try listening to your spouse just without words this week.
Just pick up on their nonverbal cues.
14:03
Speaker 2
And what do you do with those cues when you?
14:06
Speaker 1
And let them speak.
14:07
Speaker 2
Up on them.
14:08
Speaker 1
Actually let them speak to you, but you just listen.
See what they say on that.
You can probably learn a lot without using any words.
I remember Heidi way back, many years ago when I was in medical school and I think I was in my first year.
It was rough.
14:23
I felt very inadequate.
I felt lost, despairing actually, and I would beat myself up just psychologically like you're.
14:31
Speaker 2
Pretty harsh on yourself.
14:32
Speaker 1
I couldn't do it.
I felt just inadequate.
And you sat with me and you were just there.
You were there for me.
You were present with me.
You didn't try to fix it, but I really appreciate that.
I feel that connection that we had just with you being.
14:48
Speaker 2
There, I did tell you to stop being so mean to my husband, though, pretty sternly.
14:54
Speaker 1
So.
14:55
Speaker 2
Yeah, those were hard times for you, and I think you did the same for me during my grad school.
It's called imposter syndrome.
It's very real and very painful.
15:06
Speaker 1
So yeah, just little examples.
What kind of stories do you have in your marriage where you've done that or your spouse?
15:12
Speaker 2
But sometimes remembering when we've shown up and been present for each other is all it takes to spark that radical love.
15:20
Unwavering Commitment: Standing by Your Spouse No Matter What
So #4 is drum roll commitment.
Now you might say, well, commitment that's not radical.
Well, look, radical commitment is radical.
15:37
Speaker 2
What is radical commitment?
15:39
Speaker 1
That means I'm committed to you through thick and thin, my love, through ups and downs, through terrible disasters and horrible healthcare problems and financial problems.
15:52
Speaker 2
That makes me think of CS Lewis.
He married his wife and then she contracted cancer or some kind of disease, and it was so hard for him to take care of her through all of this journey with cancer.
16:09
And yet he loved her so deeply.
He would write things that allow us to take a peek into the condition of his heart during this very difficult time with her.
16:20
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's a.
16:21
Speaker 2
Great.
So deeply committed.
16:22
Speaker 1
Great story on that.
Yeah, this life of CS.
16:25
Speaker 2
Lewis Joy was her name.
He was deeply in love with her.
16:28
Speaker 1
So how radical is your commitment?
To what extremes will you go to stand by your spouse?
16:35
Speaker 2
That does make me think about my research to some extent.
There were some of the women in my study on compulsive sexual behaviors by a husband and how that impacted a wife.
And about 20% of the women in my study were so willing to be committed even after that happened that they and, and their husbands had to equally be committed.
17:00
But they really just totally reinvented the marriage, threw the old marriage out and created this brand new marriage.
So I think part of commitment, whether it's betrayal, whether it's illness, whether it's things outside of our control that happened to us, just to be able to say, I'm going to stand by you no matter what.
17:21
In the case of my research, that doesn't mean we're going to excuse your bad behavior.
I will forgive you but but we are going to both acknowledge this was wrong and we've got a lot of work to do and we've got a lot of help to get from other people to help us heal from this.
17:37
But just being committed enough to bury the bad parts and do the hard work through what it takes.
17:45
Speaker 1
Yeah.
I think it's important too that that commitment doesn't mean you're committed to that same marriage.
No, you develop a new marriage with the same spouse.
17:54
Speaker 2
You're committed to creating a new marriage together.
17:58
Speaker 1
That's interesting.
In another study by Gibberts in the Journal of Family Psychology, the commitment levels of both partners correlated very well with spouse satisfaction.
18:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, I've seen studies on that as well.
18:11
Speaker 1
So they used what's called an actor partner method, where they would have one spouse be the actor and the other the other partner would be the recorded, you know, their feelings and thoughts and the level of commitment.
So they use what's called an actor partner method where they recorded, you know, their feelings and thoughts and the level of commitment.
18:32
Those satisfaction scores were more tightly associated with those who expressed higher levels of commitment.
And interestingly, husbands tended to do a little bit better marital satisfaction wise than their wives in this study anyway.
18:49
Speaker 2
And what's the reason for that?
18:51
Speaker 1
I don't know.
They just found that if I know that you're committed to me, my feelings of happiness in this marriage are going to be a little bit higher than yours.
19:02
Speaker 2
Interesting.
19:03
Speaker 1
At least according to this study.
You know there's a great story about Richard and Mildred Loving.
19:09
Speaker 2
Oh, wasn't that made into a movie?
Yes.
19:11
Speaker 1
Oh.
19:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, such a good movie.
19:12
Speaker 1
And how appropriate their last name is Loving.
Yeah.
If you don't know who they are, they were an interracial couple.
He was white, she was black, and it was 1958.
They were arrested in their own bedroom in the middle of the night in Virginia.
19:28
Speaker 2
So sad.
19:29
Speaker 1
The Lovings actually sued the state of Virginia.
19:31
Speaker 2
Arrested because they were biracial.
19:34
Speaker 1
Because they were biracial at that point, it was against the law in Virginia.
It eventually ended up in the Supreme Court.
Just five weeks after their wedding in Washington DC, Richard and Mildred were woken up in the middle of the night by the local sheriff and halted jail.
19:50
Speaker 2
Can you imagine that?
19:51
Speaker 1
The charge violating the Racial Integrity act of 1924 Interesting the sentence A judge sentenced them to one year in jail, but he offered to suspend the sentence on one condition they had to leave Virginia and not return together for 25 years the result?
20:11
They moved to Washington, DC, but they were deeply unhappy because.
Their family was all in Virginia.
20:17
Speaker 2
And didn't they have a farm there too?
20:18
Speaker 1
I believe so.
They were very close knit family.
So the legal battle really started in 1964 when they hired some lawyers.
They first tried to get the original Virginia judge, Leon Basil to vacate the conviction.
He refused.
20:34
Writing a now infamous opinion.
He says Almighty God created the races, white, black, yellow, Malay and red and he placed them on separate continents.
The fact that he separated the races knows that he did not intend for the races to mix.
Interestingly, this judge didn't notice how you can make babies together if you.
20:55
If God didn't want us to mix, he wouldn't let us have babies together.
20:59
Speaker 2
Kind of gets my heart hot and mad, but it was the thought of the day and so we have to give a little bit of understanding.
At least that's how they saw things then.
21:11
Speaker 1
The ACLU appealed this case all the way to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court ruled in 1967, a unanimous decision in Loving versus Virginia, that they declared that the freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.
21:33
So the impact this ruling struck down all remaining state laws banning interracial marriage in the United States, though were they able to stay married?
Yes, they stayed married from their wedding day in 1958 until Richard's tragic death in a car accident in 1975.
21:49
Speaker 2
Oh, they weren't even married that long.
21:51
Speaker 1
Yeah, 18.
21:52
Speaker 2
Years.
That's not very long.
Wow.
Wow.
Sad because a lot of that they were in battle with the courts, right?
Wow.
21:59
Speaker 1
Mildred never remarried, famously saying that she had already had the best.
When their lawyer asked Richard if he had any message for the Supreme Court justices before their final hearing, Richard gave a simple, radical answer.
He said tell the court I love my wife and it is just unfair that I can't live with her in Virginia.
22:21
Speaker 2
Wow, that is commitment though.
22:24
Speaker 1
And this also reminds me of a movie one of my favorites, Shrek 2, when Shrek is battling the Prince.
Glorious handsome Prince in the end of the movie.
22:36
Speaker 2
And literally that is one of his favorite movies and he.
22:39
Speaker 1
Says, hey, you back away from my wife.
So commitment, Commitment.
Radical commitment, radical attachment.
22:47
Speaker 2
Even when it's difficult.
22:49
Speaker 1
To each other #3 passion.
22:52
Reimagining Passion: Deeply Loving Your Spouse
That means that you're deeply into your spouse.
You spend time thinking about how much you want to be with them, to bring them happiness and joy.
You take each moment with them.
Savor it like this fine dining experience.
23:10
I think the singer Bryan Adams says it best in his hit song in 1995, Have You Ever Really Loved a Woman?
23:20
Speaker 2
I can hear it in my head.
You're not singing it for us.
23:22
Speaker 1
Today I'm not going to sing it because I Can't Sing like Brian.
23:25
Speaker 2
Adams pretty high.
23:26
Speaker 1
Yeah, this is a hard one to sing, he says.
You got to know her deep inside, hear every thought, see every dream and give her wings when she wants to fly.
Then when you find yourself lying helpless in her arms, you know you really love a woman.
23:45
To really love a woman, let her hold you till you know how she needs to be touched.
You've got to breathe her, really taste her so you can feel her in your blood.
23:56
Speaker 2
That sounds like pretty radical love right there.
23:59
Speaker 1
And when you can see your unborn children in her eyes, you know, you really love a woman.
So I think Bryan Adams, that's passion that is part of radical love.
The some might say, I've been married for 30 years.
24:16
We don't have love like that.
Well, you could listen to Bryan Adams.
24:22
Speaker 2
That's going on our playlist.
24:24
Speaker 1
Let me ask you something, when was the last time you made passionate love to your spouse?
When?
Let's reimagine passion again, OK, Our.
24:33
Speaker 2
Action is defined by Bryan Adams, not passion is defined by porn.
24:39
Speaker 1
Well, porn's not passionate.
I mean by nature, I meant look passionate, but it's not, It's astroturf.
24:46
Speaker 2
OK.
24:47
Speaker 1
All right, it may look passionate, but it is truly Astroturf.
24:51
The Kiss of Death: Why Curiosity Fuels Radical Love
OK, so #2 you're just dying to find out, I'm sure.
What?
Number 2?
So #2 the radical love and marriage curiosity, the kiss of death.
I know my wife.
25:07
I know my husband.
I know she does this.
I know.
That is the kiss of death.
Folks, you don't know your spouse.
You might know some, but don't assume.
25:18
Speaker 2
I think the assumptions are really the kiss of death when we're making assumptions that make our spouse the villain.
There's a study out of Boston College about 10 years ago or so where they were studying the way enemies or people who are in conflict with each other perceive each other.
25:37
And they studied Israelis and Palestinians in the Middle East and Republicans and Democrats in the United States.
And for all of these people, they asked them about their motivation.
25:52
And they, all four groups, said their motivation was love.
And so they asked them about their enemy, I guess you could call it, or they're the person that they were opposing.
And they said they're motivated by hate.
I'm motivated by love, they're motivated by hate.
26:09
All of those people thought they were motivated by love.
And yet they were making their other, their opposition, A villain.
And so the same is with marriage.
If we can be curious instead of saying I know what you're doing and.
26:26
Speaker 1
I know you.
26:27
Speaker 2
You're trying to control me, or you're trying to gaslight me, or you're trying to oppress me, or you're trying to.
26:36
Speaker 1
Fill in the blank.
26:37
Speaker 2
Whatever the blank is, and those are the kiss of death.
Or I could say you don't care, which I have been known to say to you, probably as early as last night.
26:47
Speaker 1
I've already forgotten.
26:49
Speaker 2
That's good.
26:50
Speaker 1
So yeah, here he is.
That's a great point though my love, is to assume that you know your spouse in a negative connotation.
26:57
Speaker 2
Well, and to know their motivations.
26:58
Speaker 1
To know their negative motivation.
27:00
Speaker 2
Know what's in their head and to make them into a villain.
27:03
Speaker 1
He's just selfish.
She's just a brat.
Whatever.
27:06
Speaker 2
So that really is reducing our spouse to the lowest common denominator, to the worst possible explanation, rather than being curious and asking what is your motivation behind that thought?
Yeah.
How do you feel?
27:22
I'm just.
27:22
Speaker 1
Curious.
That must feel really hard.
27:25
Speaker 2
That has gotten to be pretty trite.
I think there are other ways you can say it so you're not just saying one thing all the time, but can you tell me about it?
Adding that on would be helpful.
27:35
Speaker 1
I like that.
That is a great point, something to keep in mind.
Do you remember how we've discussed in previous episodes a multitude of times that we change over the course of a lifetime?
Remember, you don't remember it.
Go back and listen to episode 58.
Shift happens.
27:51
That's shift, not the other one balancing me and we through life's transitions.
And we're different as we age.
And so we don't really know each other.
We have to constantly be asking each other on our date nights.
28:07
We're always asking each other about each other because I've never been here before.
I'm definitely not the same person I was even a few years ago.
So can I be radically curious about Heidi's likes and her dislikes, her dreams and her aspirations?
28:24
Do I roll my eyes at her?
28:27
Speaker 2
Or even radically curious, if you will, about why I'm being quiet or why I seem to be having a hard time.
Yeah.
What is happening inside you that's making this so hard?
Or can you link this to something that may have triggered something in you those are being curious?
28:46
Speaker 1
There's a study by Berenbaum.
The level of curiosity and reported quality of life, including marital life, were very highly correlated.
It's a great a great scientific support for curiosities so important, and not just for a loving marriage, but for a radical loving marriage.
29:05
Radical curiosity requires us to sit and to listen and to truly be interested in wanting to find out.
29:15
Speaker 2
I think one other way we might do that is to be radically curious about where we can change things in our marriage.
Be very curious about.
I wonder if we change this if it would make it a little more scintillating.
I wonder if we tried this new thing.
29:33
Speaker 1
Yes, and we've tried a few things lately we're not used to doing.
And I'm a very routine kind of a guy and it's been fun.
29:41
The Highest Form of Love: Non-Judgment and Agape
It's been great.
All right, Number one, most important point in creating radical love, the idea of non judgement.
Radical love requires radical non judgement.
When I can accept you fully for who you are, for what you do, that is radical love.
30:02
That is a part of radical love without reservation.
When we can look at each other to fully accept each other for who we are, we're utterly naked, both body and spirit.
We are our own free selves, down to the core.
30:19
Speaker 2
That really makes me think of the Greek terms for love.
In English, there's mostly just one word for love, but it can have so many different elements to it.
But in Greek, there are four or five different words for love.
And we've talked about arrows quite a bit on here when it comes to sexual love, passion, romance, longing.
30:41
But there's this other form of love in Greek called agape, and that is a divine, selfless love.
It's a much, much, much deeper love, covenantal, if you will, and enduring and tolerant and unified.
30:58
It includes kindness and fairness and service.
I know Scott said service doesn't Make Love radical, but if it's within this framework of yeah, where I choose to serve you because of my love for you, not that I'm having to serve you or that it's my duty to serve you, all of that wrapped together makes this deep, deep love That is the highest form of love.
31:25
So Eros is the love that brought us together, that sparks that deep passion for each other, and agape is the love that keeps us bound together.
And we keep bringing in arrows to just make it bright and shiny and scintillating.
31:45
But the love that comes from pay, from that deep commitment and all of the things that you said, really all of the five things that you said, contribute to that deep form of divine love.
31:59
Speaker 1
And getting back to service, I would say service is definitely necessary for any kind of love serve each other, but not in and of itself sufficient.
How's that?
Necessary, but not sufficient.
32:11
Speaker 2
And like we talked about at the very beginning, radical love requires a change of heart.
I think when our heart is in a deeply loving agape kind of a state service is always going to be way better for both of us.
32:28
Speaker 1
Right, it's going to come more naturally.
32:30
Speaker 2
Well, not only more naturally, but be given and received with more meaning.
32:35
Speaker 1
All right, getting back to the beginning, to my bumper sticker to love.
Radically, that means we take this not only to our spouse, but to the world.
Love for all people equally.
To bring this deep inner peace of having this really radical love for just people, just strangers on the street, for people you meet in the store, for people on the airplane.
32:58
You see them all the time.
Just smile, engage your eye contact.
33:02
Speaker 2
That's it.
People who are different than you.
This is how we make the world a better place.
33:06
Speaker 1
So let's recap here, my love, The five points to radical love in your marriage.
So #5 to be present with your spouse #4 to commit radical commitment to each other. 33 Radical passion.
33:27
Passionate love.
33:29
Speaker 2
22.
33:31
Speaker 1
Radical curiosity with each other.
OK.
And #1 #1 radical non judgment.
Yeah.
So that's it, let us know if you agree with those 5 or not.
If you have your own 5 let us know.
Leave a comment.
So what can you do this week?
33:49
Try listening to your spouse.
Just listening without using words, just your non verbal cues and see what happens.
Plan something out of the ordinary.
If you're a routine person like me, it might be a little hard, but just do it.
Plan something that you don't otherwise do as your spouse.
34:07
Maybe a date night.
Hey, what's 1 fear that you haven't told me about yet?
We're learning how to dig deeper because that's the way we get to radical love, the way we get to the scintillating love that scintillating marriage.
Let us know what happens this week.
34:23
And don't forget to share this with a friend.
Just send a link.
34:27
Speaker 2
Until next week, everybody will see you on another episode of Marriage.
34:31
Speaker 1
IQ.
