Episode 133: The 3 Words That Stop Arguments
“Help Me Understand”: The Simple Communication Shift That Changes Marriage
The Three Words That Can Change the Way You Argue
Every couple has that argument.
You know the one. It starts with something small — dishes in the sink, being late again, a parenting disagreement — and suddenly you’re fighting about things that happened five years ago. Voices rise. Defenses go up. Nobody feels heard. And somehow, even after all the talking, nothing actually gets solved.
If that sounds familiar, you’re not failing at marriage. You’re human.
Couples therapist Raffi Bilek says communication struggles are incredibly normal. The problem is that most of us were never really taught how to communicate in relationships. We learned math, history, and science in school, but very few of us learned how to navigate conflict, emotional triggers, or misunderstandings with someone we love.
And that’s why so many couples keep repeating the same painful cycles.
But according to Raffi, there’s one simple shift that can completely change the tone of a conversation:
“Help me understand.”
Those three words can transform an argument from a battle into a connection point.
Most Arguments Aren’t Really About Winning
When communication breaks down, most people instinctively try to prove their point. We think:
If I can just explain myself clearly enough, my partner will finally see why I’m right.
But relationships aren’t debate competitions.
The goal of communication isn’t to win. It’s to understand.
That doesn’t mean you always agree with your spouse. It means you become curious about their experience instead of immediately defending your own.
Instead of saying:
“You always overreact.”
“That makes no sense.”
“Why would you do that?”
Try saying:
“Help me understand why that upset you.”
“Help me understand what you were feeling.”
“Help me understand why this matters to you.”
That tiny shift changes everything because it lowers defensiveness and creates emotional safety.
Your Spouse Isn’t Crazy — They’re Different
One of the most powerful ideas from the conversation is this:
Two people can experience the exact same situation and walk away with completely different emotional interpretations.
Neither person is necessarily wrong.
We all bring different histories, personalities, fears, values, and childhood experiences into marriage. One partner may value punctuality because their home growing up was chaotic. Another may value flexibility because they were raised in a rigid environment.
One spouse may see strict parenting as responsibility. The other may see it as emotionally damaging.
The issue usually isn’t that someone is irrational. It’s that two different inner worlds are colliding.
Healthy communication begins when we stop assuming our perspective is the only valid one.
The Best Communication Tool? Take a Break
One of Raffi’s biggest practical tips is surprisingly simple:
Take a break before trying to solve conflict.
When emotions are high, our brains go into protection mode. We stop listening well. We become reactive. We say things we regret.
In those moments, couples often feel an urgent need to “fix this right now.” But immediate confrontation rarely leads to understanding.
Sometimes the healthiest thing you can do is pause.
Sleep on it. Go for a walk. Calm your nervous system. Give yourself space to think instead of react.
That doesn’t mean avoiding problems forever. It means returning to the conversation when both people are emotionally regulated enough to actually hear each other.
As Raffi explains, many issues feel enormous in the heat of the moment and much more manageable after a little time and perspective.
Separate Understanding From Solving
Another powerful communication strategy is separating conversations into two phases:
1. The Exploration Conversation
This is where both people simply share feelings, fears, concerns, and perspectives — without trying to fix anything yet.
The goal is understanding.
2. The Resolution Conversation
Only after both people feel heard do you begin discussing solutions or compromises.
Most couples skip straight to problem-solving before fully understanding the emotional layers underneath the disagreement. That’s why conversations often feel rushed, tense, or incomplete.
Understanding creates connection. Connection makes solutions easier.
You Don’t Need a Perfect Marriage
One of the most refreshing parts of the discussion is the reminder that healthy marriages are not conflict-free marriages.
Strong couples still misunderstand each other. They still get frustrated. They still disagree.
What makes the difference is confidence.
Confidence that:
“We can talk about this.”
“We can repair this.”
“We know how to reconnect.”
That’s what creates emotional security in a relationship.
A great marriage isn’t built by avoiding problems. It’s built by learning how to move through them together.
Start With One Simple Change
The next time conflict shows up in your relationship, resist the urge to defend yourself immediately.
Pause.
Take a breath.
And try asking:
“Help me understand.”
Not to manipulate.
Not to win.
Not to prepare your comeback.
But to genuinely understand the person sitting across from you.
Because sometimes the most powerful communication skill isn’t speaking better.
It’s listening differently.
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0:00
Speaker 1
You're struggling with communication.
Great welcome.
You're normal.
0:02
Speaker 2
The way you argue is about to change today.
0:06
Speaker 1
Help me understand.
That is my three most important words in marriage.
Problems are places where we can connect.
My marriage is great not because nothing ever goes wrong, but because we have real confidence that we are going to talk about in the salt.
0:21
Speaker 2
Welcome to Marriage IQ, the podcast helping you become an intelligent spouse.
0:26
Speaker 3
I'm Heidi Hastings.
0:28
Speaker 2
And I'm Scott Hastings.
0:30
Speaker 3
We are two doctors, 2 researchers, 2 spouses, 2 lovers, and two incredibly different human beings coming together for one purpose.
To change the stinky parts of your marriage into scintillating ones using intelligence mixed with a little fun.
0:51
Have you ever had the same argument so many times that you could play both roles?
You're like, you always do this and you're like, no, you always do this, and suddenly you're in this big production that seems like it's on Broadway.
1:08
Speaker 2
Who started this?
And the tickets are free.
I don't have to pay anything but the emotional cost.
That's where it comes in.
1:16
Speaker 3
Well, it typically starts with something small, like the dishes or parenting, and somehow it ends up that you're arguing with each other about your childhood, your tone of voice, and you start slinging mud at each other from the past.
1:29
Speaker 2
If that sounds familiar to you out there, congratulations.
You are human, and you're also in the right place.
1:39
Speaker 3
Yeah, today we're talking with a couples therapist and author, Rafi Billick, who helps couples stop fighting and start connecting without needing a referee or a translator.
1:52
Speaker 2
So stick with us, because the way you argue is about to change today, right here.
The magic happens.
2:00
Speaker 3
Ravi started with a computer science degree, interestingly, but he switched degrees somewhere along the way to become a therapist because the computers refused to laugh at his jokes.
2:13
Speaker 2
That happens to you too?
He's.
2:14
Speaker 3
A funny guy.
2:15
Speaker 1
Well, it's different, what with a chat sheet we do.
You can get to laugh at anything.
You just don't.
You don't have to do.
2:20
Speaker 3
That see, you gave up on computer science just a little too early.
Ravi is a dad of four girls, a former swing dancer, an Orthodox Jewish rabbi and a nationally ranked Scrabble player.
And what I think is most important about Rafi is that he's deeply in love with his wife, even though she may not always laugh at his jokes.
2:44
He says his marriage is the very best part of his life.
And I love that.
Rafi welcome.
2:52
Speaker 1
Was that applause for me?
2:54
Speaker 3
Yes.
2:55
Speaker 2
Millions of people loving to hear you today.
2:58
Speaker 3
Do they clap for you because you're giving such great tools or because you're a funny guy?
3:02
Speaker 1
I guess it's somewhere in between.
I always thought it's just because I am who I am, you know, just by my walking into the room.
People ought to be applauding, is how I always thought.
3:09
Speaker 2
Of it, well, especially if you're a, let's get this straight, a Jewish rabbi, a swing dancer, and a like, an awesome Scrabble player.
3:19
Speaker 1
I am an awesome Scrabble player, it's true.
Well.
3:21
Speaker 2
Maybe Rafi, you and I need to get together.
You can give me some tips because every time we play Scrabble she crushes me.
3:29
Speaker 1
Yes, well, I can solve that problem by creaming her on your behalf.
3:33
Speaker 3
Give us your top tip.
3:34
Speaker 1
Top tip for Scrabble, you have balance between getting a good scoring word and like not getting rid of all your good letters.
You know, Because if you get rid of all your good letters and you get like a decent scoring word, but the next is gone.
So there's a balance there.
There's a balance to strike.
3:49
Speaker 2
A balance that sounds, that sounds like a theme.
So Rafi, in your experience, is it normal for couples to struggle with communication?
3:56
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's about everybody.
That's all of us, man right.
If you're struggling with communication, great, welcome.
You're normal.
That's how we all roll.
It takes time to get a hold of and also they don't really teach it to us, right.
We learn lots of useless things in high school, like brigonometry and the history of something or other.
But The thing is that we can actually use didn't get a lot of that as then you're thrown into a relationship and you just going to kind of wing it.
4:18
Speaker 3
I agree with you in both high school and college.
We need way more hours spent in the classroom to help prepare us for these relationships.
4:28
Speaker 1
Yeah, there's been a social emotional learning stuff now, especially in earlier grades, and I'm glad to see that, but I definitely need more of that all across the board.
4:36
Speaker 3
Yeah, that would be great.
So what do couples usually think is the problem versus what's reality?
What's going on underneath when communication starts breaking down a?
4:48
Speaker 1
Lot of times people think if I could just get this piece of information into your mind, if I could just get you to understand what I'm trying to tell you, then you wouldn't be upset because you see it the way I see it.
But that is not the case.
My trying to get you to understand me and why I am right.
5:04
Probably not a winning strategy.
The mindset of Help me understand that is my three most important words in marriage.
Some people like I love you.
Some people like I was wrong.
No, no.
And my three most important words help me understand.
5:18
Speaker 3
Help me understand.
5:20
Speaker 1
Yeah.
I mean, nearly everybody on this planet has a reason for doing what they do.
There are some people who are irrational and psychotic, but most people are not like that.
And your spouse probably is not.
And if they have done something or said something, there's probably a reason.
5:37
There's probably something that makes sense that you could understand.
So before you try to explain to them why they are wrong or why they should see it your way, if you could come with help me understand it.
Like I don't understand why you got mad there or I'm not really sure why you ended up staying out late after we agreed not to be like I don't know.
5:54
But there's probably something there I could understand though.
It helped me get a better sense of where you're coming from, and having that understanding would do a lot for our communication.
6:02
Speaker 2
Well, I say the three most important words are.
Am I wrong?
Not I am wrong, but am I wrong?
It's asking us a question I really like though.
What you're saying though, help me understand.
I like it.
I think they're both getting at the same point without shame because if I say am I wrong I'm just asking a question.
6:21
I'm curious.
Yours might be a little bit easier to listen to.
Help me understand and.
6:29
Speaker 1
There are also times where nobody's wrong, we're just not sure what's going on.
Like, why are you doing that?
And I'm doing this, And we're not necessarily angry at each other and nobody's accusing anybody, but we're not on the same page here.
So help me understand, Like, why is it important for you that we get extra salad for the guests?
6:46
I don't know, whatever it might be, like there's something going on for you that you feel it's necessary to buy that much salad.
Let me understand where that is.
6:54
Speaker 2
Well, my thing though is I'm kind of an airhead now.
I have become more of an intelligent airhead over the years, but I ask that question a lot because I don't understand a lot.
7:13
You can be intelligent without understanding things.
So things have to be very concrete, very literal in this brain.
And for a lot of people, they make inferences.
They can put things together, weave things together very quickly, like in a movie plot or just with whatever's happening around them.
7:35
They're able to kind of boom, boom, boom, pick up on it.
They're much easier at picking up on nuances of life than I am.
Or I just bluntly like a Mack truck, Like I don't understand anything, what's happening right now.
Help me understand.
7:51
Speaker 1
I think this has a lot less to do with intelligence does to do with the natural human bias that we all have to think that the world is the way we see it, especially, you know, when we're kids just don't understand how anybody could like garlic or olives or whatever, like how to grow feed that it's gross.
8:09
It doesn't occur to you that different people have different tastes.
And as we age, we sort of understand like, OK, like I like chocolate and you don't.
Well, that's not true because everyone likes chocolate.
But then we understand people have different tastes, but we don't have all mature to the point of understanding.
Oh, we have different emotional experiences as well.
8:25
So we can watch the same event taking place and understand it differently, interpret it differently, feel differently about it, and nobody's wrong.
We're just different.
In the same way that nobody's wrong for liking garlic or olives.
We're just different.
And you can be as smart as all get out, but if you don't have space for someone else's existence and someone else's difference from you, then we're stuck in the same place.
8:52
And even worse because now you use your great intelligence to twist things around and convince your spouse that really it's the way you want.
And they're not as articulate or as intelligent as you, but they're just different.
And so that intelligence could sometimes be pointed in the right direction if we don't take that time to say, let me understand the world the way you experience it.
9:12
Speaker 3
I think this is really important because I especially hear women say my husband is very talented verbally.
He can be.
9:22
Speaker 2
Not women.
9:22
Speaker 3
Any argument?
Well, but but debating wise, he can beat any argument and I just don't know what to say.
I just kind of shrivel up because he kind of pounds it and I don't know what to say.
9:36
Speaker 2
It's a personal story, my love.
No.
Oh all.
9:40
Speaker 1
Right.
9:41
Speaker 3
Well, because.
9:41
Speaker 2
You know, I do.
I do like to debate it.
9:44
Speaker 3
Probably was the first year, first few years of our marriage most likely.
9:48
Speaker 2
Not you.
I mean, I'll debate.
9:51
Speaker 3
I think men a lot of, well, probably they're both men and women, but I hear more women say that they just feel like they can't say anything without it becoming a debate and they don't want a debate.
So they shut down and say nothing.
But what I hear you saying is either spouse, if either one is kind of a debater and just gets a rush from silencing their spouse.
10:14
If we just remember your principle, which aligns with Stephen Covey's seek first to understand before being understood, right?
10:24
Speaker 2
One of the seven habits.
10:26
Speaker 3
Of a highly effective people.
So whether I'm the one who's shutting him down or whether he's the one that's shutting me down, if we can seek first to understand, that's going to help us stay out of fights, yeah.
10:41
Speaker 1
Convincing is not a very good communication strategy unless you happen to be on a debate team.
But most people that were married are not on the puzzling side of the of a debate team, even though it feels that way sometimes.
So rather than than starting with, let me convince you, or let me explain to you how you should see it.
10:57
Let me understand how you see it first.
10:59
Speaker 3
I think it took me a few years to figure out that there isn't a right and a wrong way to see everything, and that my way of seeing things wasn't necessarily always the right way.
That would be one of those really great things to teach in college and high school.
11:16
Speaker 1
Sure, they are doing more of that now, certainly more than when we were in college back in the 18th century.
But acknowledging there's more than right, one right way to do things, that is true for a lot of things.
We all do have moral principles, but there's something that we say, no, that's not right.
11:32
Like I disagree with you that it's OK to murder random people on the street.
I'm not going to agree that there's more than right one right way, but there is more than one right way to, you know, bake a potato.
You've got the microwave, you've got the oven, much lower steaks.
11:47
Now there's all that stuff in the middle where it's not so clear.
Is there a right or wrong way to do X?
Like maybe, maybe there's a moral value attached to it that you can't give up, but maybe it's not.
I've always thought that this is the way it has to be done.
But am I wrong?
12:02
Does that have to be done that way?
Right.
Yes, it has to be done that you should not murder other people.
And I'm not prepared to give up on that.
But you know what?
When I got married, I brushed my teeth after breakfast, and my wife brushed it before breakfast.
And we had some debates about that.
And eventually I came around to her.
12:18
But I asked the dentist one time.
He was like, oh, you should brush before you want to get all the germs off from when you're sleeping.
And so I was like, oh, all right, OK, So there was a different way to do that.
And I'm OK with that.
I don't have a strong moral value.
That's just kind of the way I grew up, and that's OK.
We get stuck in those things like that's how I know it.
12:35
That doesn't mean that's the only way to do it well.
12:37
Speaker 2
You hit on a lot of stuff here, Rafi, And this is the great experiment of life, right?
We're all an experiment and we all have different upbringings, different culture, religion, ethnicity, genetics, core.
12:52
Speaker 3
Values.
12:52
Speaker 2
Dispositions.
Genders, like we come to this world with all these things, this package deal, and then we grow up being in this culture, the environment where we start developing our own core values, whether we think about it or not.
13:13
And we know about these core values when they get bumped up against, like in an argument with the spouse who did not have that same core value, you know, like being on time somewhere as a core value.
Yeah, that's just one of many, right, that you're talking about and just trying to navigate this together in a way that's meaningful and not destructive.
13:37
Speaker 1
Yeah, and that when you make space for someone else and still keep going on your own track, you don't have to delete yourself.
You have to find a way to make it work with different people with different views.
That's very satisfying if you can get there.
But if you're lost in this mindset of there can only be one right way and it's either mine or yours, boy, that's stressful.
13:57
How do you get there?
How do you get to a place where you can understand that there's one way?
I think that looking at your life experience, I think for most of us, we can see that's true.
We just don't want to admit recognizing that you're not the only person in the world, that you're not your way is not the only way.
14:14
I think there are very few people who would say on principle, no, I am always right and my way is always the right way.
They act like that.
But we know in our hands that's not really quite true.
There are many ways to do different things and that's part of our makeup.
Some people are very flexible on easygoing and some people less so that could be a struggle for some people.
14:33
But I think that tapping into that recognition like, oh, you know what, There really is more than one way for a lot of things.
Maybe this one too.
So.
14:40
Speaker 3
Would you say that your number one communication tip, your number one starting point in the book?
14:45
Speaker 1
Of the chapter on different mindsets that help which is everybody has a reason.
Another one is your partner is awesome, just noticing that they're generally good.
But yeah, you know, having a sense that if you believe that the only way to do things is your way, we do have a problem.
And again, if there's someone who genuinely believes that they're going to have a trouble in a relationship, I think most people have a sense that that's not the way it actually is in the universe, Just they just have trouble in acting that.
15:11
OK.
So getting in touch with that reality helps us to move forward and be able to communicate.
Yet that is a foundational understanding for communication to work.
It's less about the mechanics.
It's just if you don't think that I have any place in this world, then like I'm not much to talk about so.
15:25
Speaker 3
You just mentioned a book that you wrote.
Your book is called The Couple's Communication Handbook.
So can you walk us through one key tool from your book that will help couples today?
15:38
Speaker 1
Absolutely.
So I'm the first thing I tell everybody is take a break.
Take a break.
It always seems so urgent when something's going on, right?
Your spouse do something that you don't like that they've done 100 times, that you really hate when they do that and you think, I really need to go set the record straight.
15:53
I need to tell them what's up.
And the answer is no, you don't.
No, you don't.
You don't.
Because when you do it in that moment, you are wrapped up, you are irritable, you are unhappy, and you run into it and you try to fix it and it doesn't go well.
And people would just say, you know what, let me just sit on this for a while.
16:11
You go to sleep, you wake up, you're refreshed.
It's not that big a deal anymore.
Sometimes it's small enough, you just go like whatever, I was tired last night.
It's fine.
Sometimes you don't and you do have to talk about it and you should talk about it.
But now you're in such a better place to do so that it'll just go a lot better.
16:27
So I tell everybody, before you get into it, take a break.
Or if you're already in it and it's not going well, pause.
Hey, I gotta take a break.
This is not working for me.
It will save so much wearing John relationships.
People would just space it out a bit more.
Oh, Rafi.
16:40
Speaker 2
It feels so good to just lay into her about how wrong she is and what.
16:44
Speaker 3
About never going to bed angry with each other I.
16:47
Speaker 2
Get to feel so good to just let it RIP, you know?
16:51
Speaker 1
It feels so good.
And the question is, do you want to feel good or do you want to make things better?
I totally get it, right?
I've been there.
Also, it's like you just want to say, oh, that was so wrong.
Look, you totally can't get away with it.
I'm not letting her get away with that, OK?
But everyone knows where that goes.
Everyone listening knows what happens when you're upset.
17:07
It goes poorly.
You get fight, you fix nothing.
You feel worse afterwards.
We all know it, but we all do it.
It's hard.
It takes effort to hold yourself back.
Yeah.
17:16
Speaker 2
No, I love this.
Where you just take a break to learn to take a break, to force myself to take a break.
17:24
Speaker 3
And Scott's kind of hit on a really, at least for me, cool way to do that.
When he can see my temperatures kind of rising and things aren't going well, he'll just take off my shoes, take off my socks and start rubbing my feet.
17:41
And immediately I tend to just kind of calm down a bit.
We don't talk about things for a little while, but sometimes just that deep pressure on your feet, at least for me, some wives.
17:53
Speaker 2
Don't like their feet rubbed?
I think most wives do.
But for this wife and this marriage, that's a real.
18:01
Speaker 1
This actually sounds like a great strategy I'd like to implement.
So, Scott, if you would come to my house, I'll walk.
18:07
Speaker 2
You through it, but I'm not going to touch your wife.
18:10
Speaker 1
No, I'll come on my feet.
I want you on my feet.
18:14
Speaker 2
Your feet OK and where?
18:15
Speaker 3
Is it you live?
18:17
Speaker 1
I'm in Baltimore.
We're.
18:18
Speaker 3
Baltimore, Dallas.
18:19
Speaker 2
Long drive or?
18:20
Speaker 1
Walking there, you'll get here, but.
18:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, I love that.
I mean, God knows I love my wife and we have this podcast.
We have a great marriage.
We also want to be honest, we're.
18:32
Speaker 3
Human like we're.
18:32
Speaker 2
Human.
And every time I feign righteous indignation like I did at the beginning of this podcast, I'm just joking.
There's no way I feel like.
18:43
Speaker 3
Well, no.
18:46
Speaker 2
At all?
Like close to perfect in any way.
18:51
Speaker 3
You do like to debate I.
18:53
Speaker 2
Do love to debate actually, but I'm yes, perspective seeking is such a big part, I think of what we're both trying to say here and that's really a sign of emotional intelligence, to be honest.
Perspective taking.
I think one way for me to practice perspective taking is by choosing a new restaurant that we haven't been to with different food.
19:18
And you know, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but even if you lose on this restaurant, I try to pick out like, what were they trying to accomplish here, you know, and so that that helps me practice on perspective taking.
Just a small thing because I love to eat.
19:35
I'm a foodie.
So Rafi.
19:37
Speaker 3
There are some topics for a lot of couples that are trigger points for conversations that are going to end up heated.
One I think probably is parenting, 1 is sex, 1 is money.
How do couples approach these topics without things getting really heated?
19:57
Speaker 1
I would say the best thing is never to talk about it.
Stop it under the rug and just keep going.
20:03
Speaker 3
OK.
20:05
Speaker 1
Or you, you, you work on developing a system where you can talk about difficult things, which is again, what I teach people exist, what's in the book.
But the idea being that we'll do this one of the time.
Let me tell you where I'm coming from and you'll listen to me understand where I'm coming from, try to make sense of it, not have to agree with it.
20:22
But if I say, I think we need to be harsher on the kids, we need to set firmer boundaries, right?
That's a classic argument.
You don't have to argue with me whether you think I'm right or why it's bad.
You just have to understand why I think that's important, right?
Not be called them a tie writer because I worry that if we don't give them boundaries, they're never going to be all the settle limits on themselves, etcetera.
20:40
Like I have concerns like feelings.
I have legitimate ways of seeing things and if you can reflect that back and I say, oh, she gets it.
She understands where I'm coming from now we're in a better place to move forward.
And then I have to hear where you're coming from and why you think that we shouldn't be too harsh and we have to be more kind and loving and forgiving and all these things because you're worried that if we're too harsh, they're not going to listen to us, etcetera.
21:01
Fine.
There's lots of ways to understand it.
There's lots of different parenting approaches.
Kids are different, parents are different, relationships are different.
Fine, I'll understand you.
You understand me.
I care about what you're going through.
You're worried because your father yelled at you so much and this that the other and I'm worried because I never felt like I had any self regulation, whatever it is.
21:23
But if we understand each other and care about each other, then from there we can go and try to figure out what to do about.
But first we're going to understand each other.
The first conversation we have about any of these topics is let's understand, let's explore the problem because you can't solve a problem that you don't understand.
21:40
And yet we try to do that all the time.
Oh, we have a parenting conflict.
Let's you know, do the let's read this parenting welcome.
Do this thing like, what's the disagreement and how do I feel about it?
And why am I worried?
Am I upset?
And what's going on for me?
If we can understand the problem and care about the other person's problem, then solving that problem becomes a lot easier.
21:58
So.
21:59
Speaker 2
I 100% agree.
We both do.
We frequently say that just understanding the problem is half the solution I want to.
22:06
Speaker 1
Say 80%.
I would say that once you get that understanding that we're about 80% of the all right.
22:10
Speaker 2
So 50 to 80, depending on who you, I'm right here depending on who you listen to.
So let me go back a little bit because I think this is really important.
A lot of us don't even know what who we are.
22:27
Speaker 3
We.
22:27
Speaker 2
Do not know what we believe.
We do not know why.
22:31
Speaker 3
We believe it.
22:32
Speaker 2
So we're arguing with our spouse, standing up for something we're not even sure we believe in because we never sat down with ourselves and had a conversation with ourselves and find out who in the heck am I?
22:49
What do I like?
What do I don't like?
Who am I?
What are my core values?
Why do?
22:53
Speaker 3
I feel so strongly about why do.
22:55
Speaker 2
I feel this way.
Don't sit and watch TV, don't scroll on social media in time getting to know you.
So when you do have this argument, when you say 80% of the solution is just figuring out the problem, you can know much better how to make that solution.
23:18
Because This is why I am reacting so much to this thing.
This is why I react so much to feeling like they don't think I'm competent competence.
I think it's probably everyone's core value.
If I feel like somebody's accusing me of being incompetent, why does it make me so upset?
23:38
But have you?
23:38
Speaker 3
Figured that out well.
23:39
Speaker 2
Sort of.
I mean, it takes a lifetime, but I'm getting there.
I've been able to sit myself and go, why do I respond this way?
Am I competent?
OK, yeah, here's the evidences for my confidence.
And I'm like, OK, and yes, it's OK to feel like I need to be competent.
23:58
That's a core value that is part of our four cornerstones.
What is identity?
We got to know who we are.
We're always changing too.
So that's a paradox, right?
Because we need to know who we are, but we're always changing.
So giddy up.
24:13
That's what life's about.
24:15
Speaker 1
That's the ride.
So from.
24:16
Speaker 3
Your experience when couples can't easily work through the mud, maybe of trying to figure out why they feel the way they do and resolve some of those conflicts, What do you think it is that keeps them stuck?
24:33
And is it possible to move through?
Or they're like John Gottman says, just some topics that you'll never figure out.
24:42
Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean, there are differences of opinion that every couple has, but that doesn't have to get in the way of a really good relationship.
If there are fundamental value differences, that might be an issue.
That is, again, something you probably want to know before you get into a relationship, certainly before you get married.
25:00
You know, if one person is a devout Catholic and the other person is a devout Muslim, like that may be tough.
I'm sure it's been done.
But some people may not want to face that difference, and that's important to be aware of.
You think we should be harsher on the case and I think we should be less harsh.
Fine.
We'll continue to talk about that.
25:16
We'll continue to share how we feel about it.
I really worry that it's going to be too hard on them and you're really worried about this.
And as long as we stay in contact and we're talking about it, and I care that this bothers you, then we're in a relationship.
And it's a good relationship.
We don't necessarily have to make the problem go away.
25:34
We have to manage well and feel like we're connecting over it.
Problems are, are places where we can connect just the same as, you know, going out on a sailboat or enjoying a hobby together or whatever it is.
That feels easy.
But the really good stuff is when we rub up against each other and come out on the other side in one piece.
25:50
That's good relationship.
25:52
Speaker 3
So for some of those more serious issues, I know you do work with couples for whom sexual betrayal or some kind of betrayal is an issue.
Can they just communicate their way out of that or are there communication skills that help with it it?
26:11
Speaker 1
So I think that the communication is the same.
It's the same game there, which is, let me understand how you're feeling.
Now we put into a certain context, which is that the person who has been betrayed often has a lot of reach, humiliation, anger, upset, sadness, fear, and all those things.
And they have to have free reign to talk about that at length.
26:28
So the balance is a bit lopsided here, more so than in another situation where the one person is sort of really letting out their stuff, not in a mean, nasty way, you know, no name calling and no, you know, tearing off people's faces.
Just, I'm angry, I'm devastated, I can't believe you did this, etcetera, etcetera.
26:44
And the person who had the affair or whatever it was has to hear that.
A lot of validation, a lot of empathy.
They totally understand why you're mad at me.
I totally can't make so much sense.
I'm so sorry you feel that way.
It's imbalanced for a while, but that is the same process.
Fundamentally, I was dealing with parenting or dishwasher or anything else, which is let me understand how you feel and then you'll understand how I feel.
27:05
That can be enough for some people.
For other folks who in that situation, there's a whole process of trust building.
We have to go back through and setting up certain parameters to make that happen with honesty and transparency can be important.
Some people have been cheated on.
Do not worry that much that it's going to happen again.
27:21
For whatever reason, some people feel very, very worried about that.
Like how do I know this won't happen again?
Fine.
Again, there's lots of ways to be and helping people through that is an important part of repairing this breach.
27:34
Speaker 3
Understanding, seeking to understand.
Even if it's been a year, Even if it's been 2 years, yeah.
27:39
Speaker 1
With these big problems like infidelity, people think like, OK, let's sit here for a couple days, couple weeks, push through this, it'll be all right.
Oh, it's not.
It takes a long time.
It takes longer than people want, but it does get there.
Pain goes away over time.
Be a fear and worry goes away over time, but it's time it's a lot of conversations it's a lot of repetition that's the norm and that's true for the other issues as well like it'll take time to get through these and you're going to have multiple conversations about the same things and that's OK because we need to regularly be in touch with each other's inner worlds It's it's not a fact fighting mission like OK, now I know that you like garlic and now we're OK like no we need to keep touching base
28:20
about the things that are important to us the.
28:21
Speaker 2
Garlic thing that that's a deal breaker.
I'm out.
You don't like garlic?
I mean, who doesn't like garlic?
Good grief, I did.
28:29
Speaker 1
Not used to be a big fan.
I still don't do garlic bread for some reason.
I've gotten around to it.
Raffi, you're.
28:34
Speaker 2
Dead to me you're another wise a nice guy, but you know I'm.
28:37
Speaker 1
Not going to get my foot rub.
Oh.
28:38
Speaker 3
Deals off.
So are there one or two other tips or points like like you've written a handbook on couples communication here, that's a pretty big deal.
28:50
Speaker 1
Sure.
So here's the set up, right?
First you take a break.
You come back when you are calm.
Then you make sure that you're splitting the conversation in 2, meaning I'm going to speak and you're going to listen.
And then we switch.
But we don't do it at the same time, right?
If we're both trying to get our pain across, that means nobody's listening.
That's not going to get us anywhere.
29:06
And then we do 2 separate conversations.
One is the exploration conversation and one is the resolution conversation.
So if we're trying to figure out where we're going for the holidays this year, we're going to sit down and have a conversation in which we are not going to solve the question of where we're going for the holidays this year.
First, we're going to talk about how do I feel about it?
29:23
Well, I hate going to your parents because they always complain about my beard and whatever else it is.
And you know, you haven't been there in a while.
You really want to go, OK, let's talk about our feelings and what our worries are, our anticipations, our expectations.
And we are not going to walk away from this conversation with the solution that takes away the pressure to push through and come to some kind of conclusion.
29:43
Instead, I will understand you.
You will understand me.
And we're going to be in a much better place if we get through that conversation.
The resolution conversation is so much easier afterwards because now we know what the problem is that we're dealing with.
All the issues are on the table.
We can look at the table and say, OK, well, you really need space from your parents.
29:59
And I really need not to have to cook this year.
Now we're putting together a solution that works for everybody instead of destroying stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.
So that's the way that we get through one of those conversations.
Of course, this skills about how to share your feelings and your perspectives in a way that elicits understanding instead of defensiveness.
30:18
There's ways to respond to the person who's speaking in ways that help us connect instead of a disconnect.
That's.
30:23
Speaker 3
Very interesting, I've never thought of that.
To 1st, have an exploration discussion where decisions aren't made.
30:31
Speaker 2
Just exploring.
30:33
Speaker 3
And then what was the second one?
The second.
30:35
Speaker 1
Was the resolution is.
30:36
Speaker 3
That a different week, a different day.
It can.
30:39
Speaker 1
Be seconds after the first conversation.
It could be the next day or the next week.
But the point is there's two separate conversations.
Because if we start mixing in, OK, so you're saying you don't want to go, so let's go here, then we miss all the other depth that has to come out.
So if we know this conversation is purely enough for me to understand you and you don't understand me, and we're not changing the situation, it takes a lot of pressure off and allows us to really explore the full picture it sounds.
31:03
Speaker 2
To me, Rafi like a butterfly hunting, when I try to catch butterflies and the harder I try to catch them, the more they fly away and I never can quite get them until I just completely relax and let go and then it shows up on my shoulder.
31:21
It's amazing.
It's magic how that happens.
Now, it probably doesn't happen all the time, but I would imagine the way that you had that set up, I think that's a cool way of doing it.
Yeah, I do.
31:32
Speaker 3
Too you have.
31:33
Speaker 2
That space, right?
I think you're probably going to have more success if you have longer space than just, you know, a few minutes or whatever, maybe the next day or two or week or whatever.
But yeah, where everything just you kind of let go, things settle.
31:48
Speaker 3
Well, I think it could go more quickly if it's something like what are we going to do for date night?
You know, first we're just going to explore it's conflict.
If it's big stuff, I think it's.
31:57
Speaker 1
Different for different couples and it's different for different conversations.
If you have an important conversation but you're really doing it well, so now you understand me and I really feel understood and I understand you and you feel like I get you.
So we're in the zone and we could easily go on to a resolution conversation where it does get taken care of smoothly afterwards if we've done the first part really well.
32:20
OK, wow.
32:22
Speaker 2
Well, how about that?
I like.
32:24
Speaker 3
That when couples start communicating this way, where they're seeking to understand each other, they're taking a space where they aren't necessarily trying to find resolutions right from the beginning, but they explore what the possibilities are, which has a lot to do with understanding each other's perspective.
32:47
How is this going to impact their lives and their marriage?
It's going.
32:51
Speaker 1
To get so much better, I just, you don't have to worry about can we talk about this?
Can we know us?
You don't have to worry about is this going to go wrong?
And when things do go wrong, you know that you can solve it.
My marriage is great, not because we never step on each other's toes and nothing ever goes wrong, but because we have real confidence that we are going to talk about and solve it.
33:09
So sometimes I'll say something wrong or I'll get upset at her or whatever it is, but we know we're going to fix it.
We know hell, so having the skills and the tools and having the confidence to use them is a game changer, right?
I can't, I just, I can't imagine what it must be like for people to live in stress at home all the time because they're worried about what their house spouse is going to say or how it's going to be.
33:28
I'm sure many people have that out there.
I feel for them and I would love to help more people, which is why I do the work that I do and why I wrote the book.
It can be different.
That's.
33:37
Speaker 2
Why?
Why it's so important, Rafi, to get to know ourselves and have this identity down, who we are as a self.
We've become less reactive, less worried about what other people are thinking.
We take responsibility for ourselves.
33:52
Speaker 3
So if we're fighting too much, if we have those arguments that keep popping up, then we need to look at ourselves.
We need to look at what we're doing to try to see our spouses perspective.
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah.
34:07
Speaker 1
I think we can all do more of that.
You know, even if your spouse isn't participating, you can say, you know what, you seem upset.
Help me understand what's going on there, what's so upsetting and just break in that way and try to do your job and understanding and that.
34:20
Speaker 2
Really, that kind of happened recently with us where it just, it was, it got pretty, pretty heated and we just sat and talked and listened, right.
And like you were saying, without responding, it's so important to just listen without responding, but also not looking like you're bored or you don't care that that's kind of tricky.
34:45
And so we're able to resolve that.
It's, it is an amazing tool.
I agree with you.
And the way that you're doing it with that exploration and resolution phase, I really like that.
I think it's going to be really successful.
I would imagine you have quite a bit of success with that, no?
35:02
Speaker 1
Actually, my clients hate it for some reason.
I don't know, I actually never saved a couple of my life, but I think it ought to be a good idea.
See, I've on my own left track.
Nice.
35:12
Speaker 3
Well, we've loved having you on here with us today, and if people want to check out your book, we'll put a link to it in our description.
Yeah, that's all.
35:21
Speaker 1
That was on.
There's also a website vcommunicationbook.com if I haven't convinced you yet that there's good stuff in there.
The 1st 2 chapters are on the website.
Download them.
PDF audio book.
There is a full audio book if you like hearing me talk.
You got 7 hours and 29 more minutes for.
That came from and.
35:36
Speaker 3
We hope that couples will start today with at least one thing that you've shared today, the one thing that's.
35:43
Speaker 1
Got to be Take a break.
Nothing else is going to work.
If you come in when you're rage and angry, nothing else is going to work.
Take a break is the first thing you got to do.
Take a.
35:50
Speaker 3
Break all right well this has been really great Rafi we've so appreciated you sharing your expertise with us and making us laugh a few times so for.
36:01
Speaker 2
All of you out there, thanks for joining us.
Drop a comment wherever you're watching on YouTube or Spotify.
Apple, Yeah.
36:09
Speaker 3
What are some of your biggest communication struggles and.
36:12
Speaker 2
We look forward to seeing you next time on another exciting episode of.
36:16
Speaker 1
Marriage.
Thank you.
