Episode 98 - Real Talk: Miscommunication and Failed Expectations
Marriage IQ: How to Navigate Hurt, Communication, and Real Connection
Marriage is beautiful. Marriage is messy. Marriage can make you feel like the happiest person on earth one moment and the most frustrated the next. At Marriage IQ, we’ve learned that relationships are never 30-second sound bites; they’re complex, nuanced, and require patience, understanding, and yes a little intentional effort.
Recently, we came across a viral reel on Instagram that really made us pause. It featured an older woman sharing how hurtful it is when she speaks up to her husband about something that bothers her and instead of empathy, she gets anger or blame. She says, “It makes me feel like I’m the one to blame. I’m the one who’s crazy.” Over time, this pattern silences her. She stops using her voice. She gives up her agency.
Watching that, we felt a mixture of sadness and recognition. Sadly, this isn’t uncommon. And it got us thinking about the importance of intentional communication in marriage and how even good, loving people can get it wrong sometimes.
Good People Are Not Always Good
Here’s a key truth we’ve learned from both science and personal experience: good people aren’t always good, intentional people aren’t always intentional, and honest people aren’t always honest. It’s not about blame it’s about understanding human complexity. Everyone has neuroses, triggers, and patterns that can sometimes interfere with love and connection. The important part is recognizing them, taking responsibility, and working on repair.
Repair that’s the secret sauce of successful long-term marriages. Small missteps or misunderstandings happen. But when we approach them with curiosity, patience, and a commitment to reconnect, we grow closer instead of drifting apart.
A Marriage Retreat That Went Wrong (and What We Learned)
We recently experienced this firsthand during one of our quarterly marriage retreats. We had traveled to Colorado for a few days of reflection, planning, and connection. The mountains were breathtaking bright yellow Aspen trees in peak fall colors and we were excited to enjoy the beauty and each other’s company.
But then, we received distressing news: a tragedy had occurred at a church back home. Both of us felt reactive and unsettled. On top of that, the weather was gray, rainy, and dreary, and the winding mountain roads added stress.
Heidi wanted to have a deep, vulnerable conversation with me, and she had high expectations for the exchange. I was nervous, stressed, and reactive. The combination led to tension, frustration, and emotional distance. We were both feeling trapped and unheard.
It was messy. Real messy.
How We Repaired
After taking a step back, reflecting, and letting emotions settle, we approached the situation differently. We realized that some arguments or heavy conversations require the right environment, mental space, and emotional bandwidth. From this experience, we developed a few practical rules we now use in our marriage and they work.
1. The Rainy Day Protocol
Gray, gloomy, or rainy days can make us more reactive. Our rule: if it’s a bad day weather-wise (or emotionally), postpone heavy conversations. Find light, bright spaces, or engage in fun activities first. Serious talks can always happen later when both partners are present, calm, and attentive.
2. Preface Important Conversations
If you want to discuss something deeply personal or important, let your partner know ahead of time. Heidi might say, “I want to talk about something that’s really important to me can I have your undivided attention?” This sets the stage for focus, empathy, and respect.
3. Use Calm, Low-Tone Communication
We like to call it the FMDJ voice a slow, low, calm tone. Avoid yelling, sarcasm, or emotional escalation. A calm voice signals to your partner that you want to connect, not attack.
4. Statements and Shared Experience
Instead of blaming, speak from your perspective:
“When this happens, I feel hurt.”
“I feel ignored when this occurs.”
This shifts the conversation from accusation to sharing experience, making it easier for your partner to respond with empathy rather than defensiveness.
5. Listen First, Respond Later
When your partner speaks, listen fully. Don’t rush to defend yourself or justify your actions. Ask questions like, “Tell me more,” and resist the urge to solve everything immediately. Sometimes, empathy and understanding are the repair themselves.
The Takeaway
Marriage is not about perfection. It’s about intention, repair, and growth. Sometimes we take risks, and sometimes we fail. The difference between a happy, long-lasting marriage and a frustrating one isn’t avoiding mistakes it’s what you do after them.
Take a step back when emotions run high.
Use rules and protocols to prevent unnecessary conflict.
Speak from your perspective, not your accusations.
Listen with an open heart.
Over time, these practices create a marriage that is resilient, meaningful, and yes scintillating.
Bonus: Date Night Giveaway
We’re excited to announce our Marriage IQ date night giveaway! Sign up at marriageiq.com for our weekly marriage tips email and put your spouse’s email in too to double your chances. Winners will be announced on November 28th. Don’t miss your chance for a free, memorable date night together!
Marriage takes work, but the effort is worth it. Keep communicating, keep repairing, and keep growing together.
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Do you want me to do that next?
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Welcome to Marriage IQ: Date Night Giveaway
Here at Marriage IQ we are saving Civilization One marriage.
0:04
At a time, it makes me feel like I'm the one to blame.
I'm the one who's crazy.
0:10
And I'm not trying to say that women should be hurt at all.
Like that is not what I am saying.
Women should be heard.
Good people are not always good.
Intentional people are not always intentional.
Honest people are not always honest.
0:21
The whole mountains were yellow, bright bright yellow with the fall leaves.
0:26
There's no guardrails sometimes and there's like these big cliffs.
I'm thinking, are we in America?
Welcome to Marriage IQ, the podcast helping you become an intelligent spouse.
0:39
I'm Heidi Hastings.
0:41
And I'm Scott Hastings.
0:43
We are two doctors, 2 researchers, 2 spouses, 2 lovers, and two incredibly different human beings coming together for one purpose, to change the stinky parts of your marriage into scintillating ones using intelligence mixed with a little fun.
1:04
Welcome back everyone to another exciting episode of marriage IQ and the Hastings institute for Advanced Marital Studies today here at marriage IQ, we are saving civilization one marriage at a time.
1:20
That is our goal.
We hope that you are coming back again and again to listen to us.
And Speaking of listening, my dear.
1:31
Yes.
1:32
We are giving away free dinner on us on marriage IQ.
That's right.
1:37
Free date nights.
1:38
All you have to do is sign up, go to marriageiq.com, sign up to get the weekly tips and to subscribe to the Weekly.
1:48
Tips.
E-mail.
1:49
The weekly tips e-mail.
Put your e-mail in there.
Get your spouse to put their e-mail in there.
That way you get 2 entries.
You double your chances of getting date night on the Hastings.
Yeah, so don't wait.
Do it now.
2:05
We will announce the winners on the 28th of November.
2:09
Unpacking a Viral Reel on Marital Conflict
We are having a real talk.
2:11
Today.
2:12
Yes.
2:13
That means we're going unprepared, unscripted, and just going to discuss some interesting happenings.
2:23
You came across a reel.
2:26
Right.
Yeah, A friend of mine sent me a reel today from Instagram and it was this beautiful older woman.
It was all in black and white, which made it even more intense.
And she's talking about how it's so hurtful to a woman when she gets up the courage to talk to her husband about something that he does every day that's hurtful to her.
2:50
And his response is not empathy.
It's not compassion.
It's not understanding, which is what she was seeking for.
But instead it's anger and blame and.
3:02
Kind of putting it back on her.
3:03
Puts it right back on her.
And so she said something like, it makes me feel like I'm the one to blame.
I'm the one who's crazy and she just.
3:15
Goes wants to be heard and.
3:17
Understood.
She goes on to say that then when that's the case, she silences herself and just doesn't use her voice anymore.
Learns that she can't express the way she feels or what is hurtful to her and.
3:31
Does this.
3:31
Happen.
I think it probably is pretty common.
I wanted to get your take on that.
3:36
I think it's happens, absolutely happens.
And to those men who do that, I don't know.
Am I one of them?
3:45
I don't think typically, no.
3:47
OK, but because I don't want to.
3:49
But I but it.
I think it's a pattern.
3:53
Is it a man?
3:54
Problem.
And it could be, but it could be for women also.
But also it may not be in exactly like same recipe in a way, but different elements change out a little bit.
Do you?
4:07
Think women have their own version of giving it back to the guy?
4:11
Well, possibly, but what I was thinking of more instead is that when a woman tells her husband something that she's trying to express hurts her or makes her feel like she's not enough or whatever it is.
And and I'll come back to that word makes her in just a minute.
4:30
He may not respond with anger.
He may respond with feeling attacked.
And so he he just gets defensive.
4:36
So you're saying that maybe the woman might be misinterpreting what the guy's saying.
She's taking it as he is being completely dominant, domineering.
4:48
Yes, I think she thinks he's being completely domineering and that she has no space to speak for herself, to use her voice.
But I'm not saying she's misinterpreting totally, that's not totally what I'm saying.
I guess it's part that I have more of an issue with is that his discomfort with what she's saying causes her to close down because to me she's giving up her agency and she's not allowing him to sit in discomfort.
5:17
She feels like she's responsible for his discomfort, so she better shut.
5:21
Up.
So in other words, what you're saying is that relationships aren't 32nd sound bites?
5:29
That's right.
5:30
That make it sound like all men are terrible and all women are pristine, you know?
5:39
Yeah, and you also look at it.
How did she lay this all out for him 'cause?
5:44
I mean, I could see if you want to get a lot of likes and clicks and things, you put something out that's very simple.
5:52
Very one.
5:52
Sided, yeah, very one sided, you know, and and it in reality, I think what we're trying to say here is life is a lot messier than these 32nd sound bites about.
And I'm not trying to say that women shouldn't be hurt at all.
6:08
Like that is not what I am saying.
Women should be heard.
6:12
And I'm not either saying that she was wrong and feeling that way.
I can see why she felt that way.
She had the expectations for one response that was very generous, and what she got was anything but generous.
6:27
And that happens.
That does happen.
I think what we have found through our scientific research and through just experience in life together as a married couple, you and your professional life being my professional life, that life is really messy and you can't put it on a 32nd sound bite and get millions of views right so.
6:49
He may have been a narcissist.
6:51
If he was a.
6:52
Narcissist.
All of that is probably true all of the time.
Yeah, right.
Yes.
But I also have felt that sometimes and you are not a narcissist.
7:04
Well, here's the thing though, Heidi, and this is what makes it a little bit more complex is that I have narcissistic traits.
We all do, all of us.
But most of the time it does not rise above the threshold of being pathologic.
7:22
Now, when you're talking about narcissism, there's a threshold where it's crossed.
Are you?
7:27
Close to that.
7:28
Well, I don't know.
You tell me.
I.
7:30
Don't think you're close to that.
7:32
I hate the idea of narcissism.
I hate it and I want to move away from that as intentionally and purposefully as possible.
7:44
Well, at the same time admitting that, yeah, sometimes we all have, but sometimes.
7:49
It happens and.
7:50
People who are narcissists don't ask for it.
It does make it hard to live.
7:54
With it does they, they don't ask.
You're right.
I think most of the time they don't ask for it.
I think most of the time, the vast majority of time, we do not ask for the neuroses that we are given at birth.
That's right.
Neuroses can be personality challenges, disorders, if you if you will, and we all have them.
8:17
It's just some more than others.
And.
8:19
It was so sad seeing this old lady.
She's probably been experiencing this for 50-60 years, which tells me when I'm watching that if I don't do something right now, you're just going to be me.
8:36
You're going to be this sad old lady sitting on a rocker.
8:40
Who silenced myself the entire marriage and never been able to say anything to you without you making me feel like it's all my fault.
8:49
She did get a lot of views though.
8:50
She did, and actually looking further into the into the real, the link was quite manipulative.
9:02
It's.
9:03
Actually a man.
9:05
Who look at what we're up against.
9:08
It's a man's thing.
Very manipulative video trying to get you to purchase this.
9:14
Thing a woman trying to get women to purchase the video so that they can attract.
9:19
By the program to know how to you know how to do it.
So with all of that said, we do acknowledge that women, including myself, have felt that way sometimes, and we're going to share with you our own example with how that went down, But let you have both sides of the story so you can make some of that judgement call for yourself.
9:41
Life is Messy: The Power of Repair
But first, my love.
I think it's important to discuss and bring out the idea that good people are not always good.
Yeah, remember this.
9:54
That's me.
9:57
Good people are not always good.
Intentional people are not always intentional.
Honest people are not always honest.
You get my point.
It is a lifetime of learning and growing, and sometimes it'll be up and down and up and down.
But if you stand back after a period of time and you look at the trend, the trend graph, and you say whoa, OK, so we are getting better, things are getting better.
10:21
It may not seem like it.
Yesterday we had her, you know, blow up or whatever.
But if you look at the trend lines, get scientific about it.
10:31
And if we're constantly repairing instead of hanging on to conflict for long periods of time, if we let ourselves kind of cool down, become more emotionally stable, and then talk about it again later and keep repairing, to me, that's what makes a successful marriage.
10:50
Indeed.
So we're going to talk to you about our last marriage retreat.So we're going to talk to you about our last marriage retreat.
10:59
And as you know, we talked about marriage retreats from time to time on here.
It's our quarterly getaway, usually locally here in Dallas to a hotel or an Airbnb.
But every once in a while, we'll go somewhere else on vacation to do it.
11:16
We spend time talking about our shared vision, our goals, our mission statement, our actions and plans for the next quarter in the areas of our marriage, parenting, work, home, our spiritual life, our sexual life, all of those areas.
11:37
It's like a corporate board meeting for a marriage.
We've been accused of having a corporate marriage and I that is a badge of honor.
That's right.
11:49
We think it's what helps our marriage be scintillating.
11:52
When Best Intentions Lead to Marital Conflict
So with that background.
11:54
Not everything was wonderful on this.
11:56
Speaker 2
No, it wasn't.
11:57
Speaker 1
So wait a minute, Doctor Hastings, you guys teach this stuff.
You are marriage retreat experts.
Could we consider ourselves marriage retreat experts?
12:07
Speaker 2
I think so.
We've been doing it for.
12:09
Speaker 1
I can't think of anyone else who's who's doing this well.
12:12
Speaker 2
I don't know, I don't know.
12:13
Speaker 1
So we are going to consider ourselves experts at marriage retreats, Yeah.
So that we are teaching you about, but we did not marriage retreat very well.
Kind of like going back to good people are not always good.
12:26
Speaker 2
OK, so it was a three day retreat this time and because I love the mountains so much and I had really had a hard couple of months before that, we went to the mountains for some solace, for some just going home it felt like.
12:43
Well, and most of our time there in Colorado was fantastic.
12:47
Speaker 1
Yeah, it was good.
Most of the time I did.
I mean, I was very excited because we're going to Colorado, we're going to go hiking the mountains, and I know you love mountains.
12:56
Speaker 2
Wind up to Vale.
12:57
Speaker 1
And I love, I love to make you happy.
13:02
Speaker 2
Thank you, honey.
13:03
Speaker 1
And I love mountains too, but I really know you love mountains.
Well, and it was.
13:07
Speaker 2
Extra special because it was your birthday and when we got there we had no idea this would happen, but when we got there the whole mountains were yellow, bright bright yellow with the fall leaves.
13:22
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh, the Aspen.
13:23
Speaker 2
Trees.
Yeah, that had happened a couple weeks earlier.
We were.
13:26
Speaker 1
Not planning on that.
13:27
Speaker 2
And it was just this.
13:29
Speaker 1
We showed up.
It was like, holy cow, this is beautiful.
13:34
Speaker 2
Beyond our wildest expectations.
13:37
Speaker 1
Stayed in a nice hotel and we went out to this great restaurant.
Vail is really cool by the way.
13:47
Speaker 2
Offseason it wasn't, too.
13:48
Speaker 1
Yeah, it was a little bit offseason.
It was just splendid.
Food was fantastic.
And then I don't know how did it.
13:55
Speaker 2
Start Well.
The next day we had some rather disturbing news off the bat.
There had been a shooting at a congregation of our church in Michigan.
Several people killed.
14:09
Speaker 1
And a fire.
14:09
Speaker 2
And.
14:11
Speaker 1
Burned the church down.
14:11
Speaker 2
The building set on fire and so both of us were rather in a state of some some distress.
I think probably you think so.
14:21
Speaker 1
Yeah.
I kind of felt, I think reactive.
I was reactive that day, yeah.
14:26
Speaker 2
Pretty reactive to that.
14:28
Speaker 1
But notice, folks, we're doing a little autopsy here.
We're just going back and look at what happened, right?
Oh yeah, this event happened.
14:37
Speaker 2
Check out our autopsy.
14:39
Speaker 1
And I was.
I became reactive because of that.
Anyway, go on.
So.
14:44
Speaker 2
We decided to go on a drive several hours recommended by someone to see some of the most beautiful leaves turning beautiful colors in the mountains.
And so we it was about a 3-4 hour drive and I thought, wow, this is a really good experience.
15:05
This is a really great opportunity to take this little chunk of time and talk to Scott about something that's really important to me, really a special experience, something near and dear to my heart and open myself up vulnerably, pull him in vulnerably.
15:21
And I had some pretty Great Expectations of how that would go and.
15:26
Speaker 1
What were the some surrounding variables?
15:30
Speaker 2
So at some point on the drive, roads were a little bit windy.
He was probably still a little bit reactive from the news that we'd gotten just a little bit before that it started to rain eventually, yes.
15:43
Speaker 1
Before it.
15:44
Speaker 2
Started to.
15:44
Speaker 1
Rain.
It was very.
15:45
Speaker 2
Cloudy.
15:46
Speaker 1
Very Gray.
Yeah, right.
Do we like Gray days?
15:51
Speaker 2
We have a hard time with Gray days.
15:54
Speaker 1
So I to verifiably diagnose seasonal affective disorder.
I mean that that's part of the autopsy, right?
But it's like we don't neither one of us didn't think about it, but we didn't think about it in the moment, right?
Because you're, you know, reactive, right?
16:11
You're trying.
You're just living in the moment.
You're not thinking with that thinking part of your brain.
16:16
Speaker 2
Right.
So I felt a little dismissed when I was trying to talk about this.
And he's not really responding.
His responses are kind of curt.
I felt like he didn't care to have deep spiritual conversations with me.
I felt that he likes to talk about things he likes to talk about, but doesn't think about things I like to talk about.
16:39
Those were the stories I was telling myself.
And guess what that did to my emotions?
Well, I mean, kind of sad.
16:47
Speaker 1
I don't like to guess.
I think that's the right answer.
I am not guessing, I am asking.
16:53
Speaker 2
You.
I did feel in control of my emotions.
I was sad, I felt dismissed, but I wasn't angry.
I wasn't mad.
So we'll start from there, I think, going back to the old woman in the Instagram video.
17:07
Speaker 1
You felt like her.
17:09
Speaker 2
She had tried to explain, you know, some things, tried to tell some things.
17:14
Speaker 1
And your narcissistic husband.
17:17
Speaker 2
No, Ignored me.
You weren't angry.
You didn't yell at me.
Turn around and put it on me.
Not at that point.
17:25
Speaker 1
But I do only care about myself.
You said so, right?
17:29
Speaker 2
That was the way I interpreted it.
So we keep going.
We get to the top of the mountain and it's cold and blistery.
We get to the What was independence?
17:40
Speaker 1
Point or.
17:40
Speaker 2
Independence Pass.
That's it.
We decided let's drive over to Aspen.
We've never been there before.
The road between Independence Pass and Aspen was extremely narrow and sometimes only one lane and strong drop down, and Scott really, really hates that kind of driving.
18:01
Speaker 1
Stressful.
18:03
Speaker 2
So we, we got part rain, I got to Aspen, things were closed down and we had two choices.
Do we go back the way we came, which I wanted to do because it was so beautiful, or do we take the faster route home?
All on freeway, not on scary roads.
18:18
And I I volunteered to drive so you can tell what happened next.
18:23
Speaker 1
Well, I didn't want to go back over those roads because they were quite nerve wracking.
And I don't like heights.
And this road, if you've ever driven in, the people out there who've driven these roads between Aspen and Vail, like there's no guardrails sometimes and there's like these big cliffs.
18:43
I'm thinking, are we in America?
Like what's going on here?
There are no like guardrails there.
I don't really like that, right?
So I'm pretty stressed with that too.
18:55
Speaker 2
And I again felt like I wasn't heard.
18:58
Speaker 1
Yeah, and I, I.
18:59
Speaker 2
Went here to drive.
19:02
Speaker 1
Well, but you said OK drive.
So you were like the lady, the old lady on the real.
Yep.
You felt silenced and you told yourself it was kind of a self fulfilling thing, right?
It's like I'm silencing you and so you're going to shut down and let me have my way, my narcissistic way.
19:25
Speaker 2
But you.
19:28
Speaker 1
And I exploded.
Well, I was at some point I felt kind of trapped, like you're putting me, you're painting me in the in this box, like.
19:41
Speaker 2
That's a judgement, but you're doing the same thing right as I, I.
19:45
Speaker 1
Was.
19:46
Speaker 2
Telling we're both telling ourselves stories about I can't speak.
You're feeling we're both feeling trapped.
19:51
Speaker 1
Like, yeah, so I'm saying that that I'm being put into this box that I can't get out of.
It's like I've already done this thing in the past, therefore that now defines me for the entirety of my life.
And I reacted very negatively to that.
20:09
And it did not go well, even though it should have gone well because it's beautiful trees.
But I mean, here's the thing, you know the we we did later.
We kind of came back right after the next day before we left, we came up with some good stuff.
20:30
Speaker 2
Right.
Well, we were there a couple of more days and I think the next day we went hiking.
Well, that night we tried to repair, but it was still pretty.
There was still space.
20:46
It felt like there was space between us still, and then the next day we went hiking several miles.
That was wonderful.
I thought things were better, but they weren't better for you.
20:57
Speaker 1
So I mean, when you're in a relationship, you have to take on risk.
If it's all comfort, you're not going to get anywhere, right?
We discussed this ad nauseam and all of our other episodes.
So there has to be risk.
But when you take the risk and it fails, it hurts.
21:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, like the lady it.
21:15
Speaker 1
Stings.
It sucks naturally.
It really stinks.
And those are real, real raw emotions and feelings.
And they're very valid on both sides.
I mean, you have to acknowledge they're there.
21:32
And some people say, well, I'm not going to take this risk anymore, but.
21:38
Speaker 2
And you're giving up your personal power.
21:40
Speaker 1
You have to take the risk if you want that reward.
I'm there's no other way around it.
We took the risk, at least personally, you know, and it burned.
It burned for a while.
21:56
Creating New Rules for Better Communication
And I, I think we had a couple of hour drive back to Denver to catch our flight the last day.
And I just said, I just want to approach this again.
We've had a couple of days to sit on it, to think about it.
22:12
And I just want to understand your perspective.
Again, I just want to relook at what was the big huge trigger, cause your response was not common.
22:24
Speaker 1
Well, and before you get go further, I think it's important like it is when we go to sleep, when we get sleep, we wake up, things are different.
There are different hormones flowing.
There are different chemicals in the body flowing.
22:39
Speaker 2
We've had rest.
22:39
Speaker 1
The brain is in a different state and sometimes that's it.
You just need that break without resolution and you come at it and another time.
And sometimes a resolution can be maybe it's only 20 minutes, but sometimes it might be overnight, sometimes a little longer.
23:01
But the intention though, is to to always come back.
There's always that knowledge in our relationship that we will come back and talk about it, right?
That's, I think that's big because if you don't have that security of knowing we're going to come back and talk about it, then it can start feeling a little scary, yeah.
23:21
Speaker 2
So we did that on our way back to the airport and I feel like it went really well.
You were in a way better place.
I was able to slow myself down and not tell myself stories about my expectations that hadn't been met that were not totally true.
23:40
I did some mind reading there, which when we talk about distorted thought patterns, that's one of them mind reading.
So I'd done some mind reading.
I, I admitted to that.
We talked it through, but we didn't stop there.
We didn't stop with just understanding.
23:56
What else did we do?
23:57
Speaker 1
We made some rules.
We talked through, we did the autopsy.
We said just the facts, ma'am, just like we, we discussed now about the all the variables that came into this explosion.
Really.
24:08
Speaker 2
Trying generously to see the situation from the other person's perspective.
24:13
Speaker 1
Just a more neutral approach.
And then we said, OK, how can we keep this from happening again?
What are some things that we can do that we've learned from this now?
And one of the rules we came up with is a rainy day protocol.
24:32
Speaker 2
Which we got that term from one of my friends who really struggles with that, but.
24:37
Speaker 1
Seasonal affective disorder.
24:38
Speaker 2
Yeah, but we hadn't applied it to marriage.
24:40
Speaker 1
So yeah, this rainy day protocol on marriage retreats or really anytime.
And one of the rainy day protocols is that we don't try to talk about something really, really, really important to us while it's gloomy and grey and rainy outside.
24:59
So that.
24:59
Speaker 2
Means even when we are doing our marriage retreat, if it happens to be rainy, we go inside and find a place with lots of light.
25:08
Speaker 1
Lots of light and we play games.
25:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, we make it fun.
We we can still do the marriage retreat to.
25:16
Speaker 1
Hot chocolate.
25:17
Speaker 2
Stuff to some extent, but we we alter it and make it less serious stuff that we're diving.
25:22
Speaker 1
In We can always come back to the serious thing.
Yeah, what else did we we made?
25:26
Speaker 2
One other rule that I remember, and that was if I have something to say to Scott and I feel like he's not listening.
25:33
Speaker 1
Well, something really important too.
25:35
Speaker 2
Before I, yeah, before I say it, something that I've been thinking about, it's very personal, deep to me.
I want it to be a deep conversation.
I need to preface it and tell him, even if you're driving, I am.
I am talking to you about something that's really important and I really want to make sure I have your undivided attention.
25:57
Speaker 1
I love it.
I love it.
This is wonderful.
See, like if it's important to you, like really important, you formalize it, say, OK, let's square up here.
And if it's in the car, you know, we can't square up obviously because I'm driving, but at least I'm prefaced.
26:19
I'm prepared, I'm in the know so that my brain can be fully engaged intentionally with what you're about to tell me that's so important to you.
26:33
Using Empathy and I-Statements for Connection
OK, that's good.
So if I was the old woman and you were my husband, how would this go down then with that, with those rules in place?
26:44
Speaker 1
Well.
26:45
Speaker 2
If she wants to tell him this thing that you do, whether it's that he's ignoring her, whether it's that he's more married to his job than he is, I don't know.
He's retired, I'm sure by then, so who knows?
But whatever it is, how would that happen?
27:01
Speaker 1
I I think that.
27:02
Speaker 2
How could she start the conversation?
27:04
Speaker 1
I think the conversation with the old woman needs to to come from 2 emotionally intelligent points of view from the women and the men.
The woman, she needs to be externally aware and like what kind of days he had, you know, stressful at work.
27:20
What?
What?
27:21
Speaker 2
He's retired.
27:23
Speaker 1
Oh, he's retired.
27:24
Speaker 2
OK, I'm guessing unless she's a cougar.
27:27
Speaker 1
I don't know.
I mean, just to be aware of what's going on in, in his immediate space, right?
And recognizing that, just recognizing it.
27:40
Speaker 2
OK, then what's next?
27:41
Speaker 1
I don't know, you seem to think that there.
27:45
Speaker 2
Would it be helpful for her to say something about, I want to talk to you about something really important to me?
Yeah.
What would be a way that she could say that that would be not hurtful?
27:58
Speaker 1
Just come to him and say, hey, do you, do you have a minute?
I have something very important I'd like to discuss with you and then sit close to him.
28:06
Speaker 2
And then how can she say it in a way that would not be cause him to feel attacked?
28:11
Speaker 1
Well, I kind of like Jeremy Harowitz, the spy guy, right?
He says.
Use your FMDJ voice, right?
That's kind of the low, just low low, not, not really, you know, hyper, just calm, mellow.
28:32
This is how we're going to talk.
Slow it down, low it down.
28:37
Speaker 2
OK.
And then how about I statements?
Would that be helpful?
28:42
Speaker 1
So if you're saying if you're wanting to bring up something that he's.
28:47
Speaker 2
She's talking to him about something he does every day.
That hurts.
28:51
Speaker 1
Her that hurts her.
OK, maybe it's we can start with the the dear man, right?
When you do this, when you ignore me at breakfast, I feel ignored.
Or when you when you don't respond to me at breakfast, I feel ignored.
29:11
The story I tell myself is that you don't love me, that you'd rather stay be on your laptop.
29:18
Speaker 2
What if it's something more egregious that he's doing to hurt her?
29:21
Speaker 1
I think you could still use the same thing.
29:23
Speaker 2
OK.
And is it helpful if she's speaking from not you do this and do this and this, but this is.
29:30
Speaker 1
My experience, I'm just sharing it with you.
29:33
Speaker 2
And it really hurts.
29:36
Speaker 1
And so the I think.
29:36
Speaker 2
The other I, I am, I mean like, can you say I'm looking for empathy?
Can you say I want you to understand and?
29:44
Speaker 1
Or.
29:45
Speaker 2
That language I think isn't going to be helpful.
29:48
Speaker 1
If you approach it that way, empathy can most naturally occur from the guy.
Like he doesn't have to pull for it, he doesn't have to reach in for it.
When you set up the stage where it's that empathy can be reached very simply by the guy, that's great.
30:07
You've done your job.
It's the same thing for me, you know, because I've got the story I'm telling myself too about you that may or may not be true.
And so if I can set you up for success, it's showing empathy by speaking in non judgmental language using ifill statements.
30:31
Speaker 2
OK, so I'm the old lady, you're my husband.
I've just told you in an FMDJ voice that something you do really hurts me.
I want you to understand what you're doing is hurting me instead of you attacking and shutting me down.
30:47
At least that's my perspective.
What's a way that you could respond to me?
30:53
Speaker 1
Oh, so if it maybe if you might be a little emotionally triggered, yeah.
What can I do?
30:59
Speaker 2
Emotionally.
30:59
Speaker 1
Triggered.
I can talk to you in my FMDJ voice.
31:02
Speaker 2
OK, what else?
31:04
Speaker 1
And say, let's talk about it.
31:08
Speaker 2
Like let's talk about it from I'm a lawyer and we're looking at all the evidence and Nope, you're not right.
Like that kind of talk about it.
31:16
Speaker 1
I could say, tell me how you feel, yes.
31:20
Speaker 2
Tell me more.
31:22
Speaker 1
And not expect for you to listen to my side right now.
I'm just listening to you, not at.
31:29
Speaker 2
That point.
31:29
Speaker 1
But that's a really, really, really high level maturity.
That's really high level, especially if you're coming at me as a woman with y'all pretty pointed at language.
I mean, it's, it is going to take some high level work.
If I'm the guy.
31:44
I'm just being honest.
That's why this old lady in the real like it's so much more complex than what she's saying.
Folks, I, I hate to break it to you, but it's something that we practice though.
Like if you're coming at me and I feel defensive, which is my favorite thing to do, is feel defensive.
32:03
Speaker 2
And the mine is being critical.
32:06
Speaker 1
Then.
32:06
Speaker 2
Not not a good attribute.
32:08
Speaker 1
You know, it's it's OK.
32:10
Speaker 2
How do I?
32:11
Speaker 1
Right.
How do I decompress this?
How do I defuse this in a way where I I know we want to get to to repair 'cause we always do eventually, but I, I know why have it start so I'm working on being less defensive I'm.
32:31
Speaker 2
Working on being less critical.
32:32
Speaker 1
And using the tools that you learn here on Marriage IQ, it's worth it.
Your relationships worth it.
32:40
Speaker 2
Right.
Yeah, with that, everybody, we hope you have a wonderful week and we'll catch you on another exciting episode.
32:48
Speaker 1
Of marriage IQ.
