Episode 99 : The Shocking Truth About Couples and Phones
Unpacking the Impact of Technology on Your Marriage
Living your best life often requires a spouse. It might sound controversial, but research supports it connection matters. Yet, in today’s world, technology is like fire: it can cook dinner or burn the house down.
Even brief moments on a phone during couple time even just two seconds can quietly erode marital satisfaction. Every ding, buzz, or notification activates a tiny dopamine loop in the brain, pulling attention away from your spouse. Researchers have a term for this: technoference, or everyday interruptions caused by devices during couple time.
Our Date Night Confession
We recently had a date night in Dallas. The setting: twinkly lights, outdoor seating, and a perfect evening. We started present, talking about upcoming events. But then… our phones came out. Scott started checking hotels, I began texting a friend. Within minutes, we looked just like everyone else around us distracted, scrolling, missing each other. Half our date night was lost.
That experience perfectly illustrates how small device habits can chip away at connection.
What the Research Shows
Technoference in Action
Studies from Dr. Brandon McDaniel and Dr. Sarah Coyne show that even minor interruptions from devices predict:
Lower marital satisfaction
Increased conflict
Emotional distancing
It’s not the device itself it’s the message it sends: “This screen matters more to me than you.”
Actor-Observer Bias
Interestingly, people give themselves grace for phone use but judge their partners more harshly. This actor-observer bias can make your spouse feel rejected, even if the distraction seems minor.
Fubbing: Phone + Snubbing
A newer term, fubbing, refers to snubbing a partner in favor of your phone. Research links fubbing to:
Lower marital satisfaction
Loneliness and decreased trust
Higher jealousy, depression, and negative emotions
Constructive Responses to Tech Interruptions
All is not lost. Research shows that couples who handle dissatisfaction constructively can buffer the negative effects of technoference and fubbing. Carol Rustbolt’s work identifies four responses to dissatisfaction:
Voice – Express your feelings kindly and directly
Loyalty – Stay engaged and committed
Withdrawing – Avoiding conflict (negative)
Attacking – Blaming or criticizing (negative)
In practice:
Use “we” language: “We feel disconnected when our phones interrupt our time.”
Set intentional boundaries: No phones during dinner or date night
Problem-solve together: Discuss solutions rather than assigning blame
Add humor: Diffuses tension and strengthens connection
Shared Media Matters
Simply sitting side by side watching TV or scrolling together doesn’t strengthen relationships. True connection joint time requires engagement: laughing, discussing, and enjoying the experience together. Passive parallel time doesn’t improve satisfaction.
The Takeaways
Even small phone interruptions affect marital satisfaction.
Tech habits can trigger attachment anxiety, feelings of being unimportant, and emotional distance.
Constructive communication and intentional boundaries can mitigate the negative effects.
Shared, engaged media experiences strengthen connection, but passive screen time does not.
Phones and technology aren’t the enemy they’re powerful tools. Awareness and intentionality are the key to protecting and enhancing your marriage in a digital world.
If you want, I can also create a shorter, “scrollable” blog version with bold subheadings, bullet points, and actionable tips that’s perfect for social media and SEO. It would make all the research super digestible for busy readers.
Do you want me to do that version too?
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Unpacking the Impact of Technology on Your Marriage
Living your best life requires a spouse.
Yep, we know that's controversial, but also true.
At least, that's what a big chunk of science tells us, anyway.
0:08
I think technology is a lot like fire.
You can use it to cook dinner, or you can use it to burn the house down.
0:14
Any time that you're spending on your phone, even if it is 2 seconds that's not involving your spouse, can be detrimental.
0:21
But research shows that even minor device distractions predict lower marital satisfaction.
0:28
Every notification, Ding, buzz or red bubble activates a tiny dopamine loop in the brain's reward system.
0:35
When you're on your phone, I feel blank.
0:41
Speaker 1
Welcome to Marriage IQ, the podcast helping you become an intelligent spouse.
0:47
Speaker 2
I'm Heidi Hastings.
0:48
Speaker 1
And I'm Scott Hastings.
0:50
Speaker 2
We are two doctors, 2 researchers, 2 spouses, 2 lovers, and two incredibly different human beings coming together for one purpose, to change the stinky parts of your marriage into scintillating ones using intelligence mixed with a little fun.
1:11
Speaker 1
Yabba dabba Doo and welcome to Marriage IQ, where we are saving civilization one marriage at a time.
We welcome you back as friends into our warm, cozy cottage in the woods on a dark and frosty night, sitting by a crackling fire while sipping hot cocoa.
1:31
And that cottage is the Hastings Institute for Advanced Marital Studies, a place where you learn every week how to live a more intelligent, more scintillating, and more fulfilling life.
1:46
A life that, in order to fill the measure of your creation, requires a spouse.
Living your best life requires a spouse.
Yep, we know that's controversial, but also true.
At least, that's what a big chunk of science tells us, anyway.
2:01
Our Date Night Giveaway and Insights from Past Episodes
I really want to remind everybody about our great marriage date night giveaway here at Marriage IQ, you mean?
2:08
Speaker 1
We're giving away free money so they can go on dates.
2:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, we feel so strongly about dating as a pathway to a scintillating marriage that we're giving 5 lucky listeners $100.00 gift card.
2:22
Speaker 1
Date night on marriage IQ.
2:24
Speaker 2
If they want to join our giveaway.
2:28
Speaker 1
How do they do it?
2:29
Speaker 2
They just simply go to marriageiq.com and go to the weekly tips tab up at the top, put in their name, put in their e-mail address, and bam, they're entered in the contest.
2:39
Speaker 1
That's it.
Sounds simple.
2:41
Speaker 2
It's not only that they'll get a weekly e-mail from us that just takes one minute to read with a tip of the week that's related to our podcast that week, and it gives an action tip that they can practice in their own marriage.
2:54
Speaker 1
All right, so it's as simple as going to Marriage IQ and putting in their e-mail.
You're automatically enrolled in our giveaway.
We'll pick 5 lucky couples on.
3:06
Speaker 2
Black Friday.
3:08
Speaker 1
And tell your spouse to sign up, too, So that double S your chances.
Yeah.
Sounds great, honey.
All right, Heidi, do you know what I want to do right now?
3:16
Speaker 2
Nope, because I don't mind read.
We've talked about that in an episode before.
3:20
Speaker 1
I want to do a little thought experiment with our audience.
OK, I'm going to ask all of you out there to not think about sharing the Marriage IQ podcast with a spouse or friend.
Don't even think about subscribing or following us on Spotify, Apple, Instagram or YouTube.
3:39
Speaker 2
Or signing up for emails on our website.
3:42
Speaker 1
Don't even think about going to marriageiq.com and signing up there or sending us an e-mail at hello@marriageiq.com.
Don't even think about leaving a rating or a review that shows your appreciation or our unique approach to living your best life.
3:58
Speaker 2
We're putting a little heart on Instagram on a post that you might like.
4:03
Speaker 1
And if you disagree with what we have to say, do send us an e-mail, because we love looking at things from a fresh, new perspective.
4:11
Speaker 2
That's great.
Well, I think, Scott, we're learning a lot from marriage IQI think about the times that different podcast guests have taught us things that have been so insightful from Amanda Louder, Shalom Lovett, Bruce Chalmers, like a lot of our guests have been so influential.
4:33
And even as you and I do research, studying things, we learn a lot.
That's helpful.
4:40
Speaker 1
And we change our minds on it, right?
4:42
Speaker 2
Yeah, that bias episode really helped me specifically look at things from what are my biases and how are my biases impacting way I see thing.
4:57
Speaker 1
Hey, that's a nice look on you if.
4:58
Speaker 2
You're on video.
You can let me know if you like the glasses or if we should leave them off all right.
5:05
Speaker 1
And I learned too, about risk.
I always assumed that men took on more risk than women.
We do know there are gender differences, and we talked about that, about the gender differences between men and women.
But risk was one of those things that I thought men kind of had nailed.
5:21
But I think it depends on what you're talking about.
And so I've learned through studying and listening to our guests that women take risks too.
They tend to take more emotional risks and men take more financial risks, generally speaking.
5:40
Not stereotyping, but that's something I learned.
It was really thoughtful and helpful for me.
5:44
Speaker 2
Yeah, we continue to learn and grow, and today's episode is no different.
5:49
Our Embarrassing Date Night Confession and What is Technoference?
So I want to start off by telling you about our Friday night date night last night.
5:54
Speaker 1
Let's do it.
5:55
Speaker 2
Here in Dallas, the weather was so beautiful, so perfect.
It's been in the mid 80s here in the middle of October and we went to a nice little area with lots of restaurants and lots of lights and.
6:10
Speaker 1
Just a fun.
6:11
Speaker 2
Vibe to it and we we had outdoor seating.
6:15
Speaker 1
Little twinkly lights.
6:16
Speaker 2
As we were being seated, we noticed a lot of other people there on the patio and most of them were on their phones.
They're right there with their date, with their group of people, and they're looking at their phones.
6:29
Speaker 1
And I remember thinking, I'm not going to do that, going to be present with my wife.
6:34
Speaker 2
Right.
So we started our conversation being very present with each other and talking about what we have coming up.
And one of the questions I asked Scott was, hey, I've got this conference I've got to go speak at in a couple of weeks.
Do we have hotels set up for that yet?
6:50
And he said, oh, no, shoot, I haven't made arrangements for a hotel yet.
Picked up his phone.
6:54
Speaker 1
Whip out my phone.
6:55
Speaker 2
And starts looking right then and there for hotels for.
7:00
Speaker 1
Because that's what I do, folks.
He loves.
I am travel agent.
7:05
Speaker 2
He loves travel.
7:06
Speaker 1
Indubitably.
7:07
Speaker 2
So while he's doing that, I'm like, well, I guess I'll pick up my phone and look at my phone.
Then I picked it up.
There's a message from Amy saying, hey, you guys want to go out to dinner with us tonight.
Oh shoot, you caught us about 1/2 hour too late.
7:24
So I start taking pictures of Scott and me showing that we're already out and say, hey, if you want to join us, come over here.
And then when I went to hit send, I noticed something else that it popped up and then something else that popped up and start doing some texting, checking my emails while he's looking for hotels.
7:44
Speaker 1
So before we know it, we look just like everyone else, sitting around us, staring at our phones.
And we realized it later.
7:53
Speaker 2
We lost half our date night.
7:55
Speaker 1
And I thought, wow, that is embarrassing.
7:57
Speaker 2
And we didn't even notice.
7:58
Speaker 1
It that is really embarrassing, yeah.
8:01
Speaker 2
So today we're going to tackle the topic of technology and its impacts on marriage and this is going to be a two-part series.
This first part is going to focus on how all kinds of technology impact relationships and what the research shows both are good and bad.
8:17
And then on our episode that comes out Friday, Part 2, we're going to talk more specifically on social media and how that affects us first personally, and then also the way that in turn, that impacts our marriage relationships.
So should we dive right in?
8:35
Speaker 1
Let's dive.
8:36
Speaker 2
OK.
One of the things I want to share first is a definition that's going to run throughout this whole first part of the episode, and that's the word technoference.
8:50
Speaker 1
Technoference.
8:51
Speaker 2
And that there's so much research on that, it's fascinating.
And it is defined as everyday interruptions to couple time due to devices.
And then it kind of extended into how our devices impact parenting.
9:08
And so we get technoference in a lot of relationships eventually, but within the last, I don't know, 5 or 10 years, there's been a lot of research on techno ference.
9:18
Speaker 1
I'm doing some techno ference right now because I just thought of the movie Napoleon Dynamite.
9:25
Speaker 2
OK, tell me that actually happens to be 1 of Scott's very favorite movies.
9:32
Speaker 1
Kip gets married to La Fonda and you just have to watch the movie.
That's all I can say.
They are mismatched as you can be, but he sings a song to her when they get married at the end, and I'm going to sing a portion of that right now, OK?
9:49
Speaker 2
I love when you sing to me and I hope her listeners get a kick out of it as much as.
9:54
Speaker 1
I love technology, but not as much as you, you see.
But I still love technology, always.
10:04
Speaker 2
And forever.
That's.
That's hilarious.
Yeah.
I think the beginning of the song talks about how they met on a in a chat room and yeah, it's hilarious.
Yeah, it's.
10:17
Speaker 1
A.
So now that I've done that, techno ference with you and you can go on.
10:22
Speaker 2
So truly, he had the the intent that technology would not impact his marriage because he loves her more than he loves his technology, right?
Indeed.
But research shows that even minor device distractions predict lower marital satisfaction, and not just for those who are screen addicts.
10:45
Speaker 1
Indeed.
10:46
Speaker 2
So there are two big researchers that we're going to use today in this realm while we're fighting research on today's episode, we'll throw a few other ones in, but there are two big ones over the past decade, researcher Dr. Brandon McDaniel.
11:02
Speaker 1
He's in Fort Wayne.
11:04
Speaker 2
Indiana in the very same hospital where you.
11:06
Speaker 1
Did my residency.
11:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, and he's in the research department there.
And then Dr. Sarah Coyne from Brigham Young University.
And interestingly, the two collaborate on some of their research.
But they've both shown that even small everyday technology habits can quietly chip away at a relationship and the satisfaction within the relationship.
11:26
So in in one study that they did together, they found that when couples experienced frequent techno ference, they term it those little device interruptions like we had during our date night, during conversations, during meals, during leisure time, they report more conflict with each other and lower satisfaction with their relationship overall.
11:49
It's really not the phone itself it seems that's causing the damage, but the message that it sends that this screen matters more to me than you do, right?
11:59
Speaker 1
Now, So Heidi, what I hear you're saying is just these little small things that I don't even think twice about, right?
I got a patient who texts.
So I get e-mail.
I'm looking at stock market quotes.
I don't think in my head that's a big deal, right?
12:16
But it's just little, little, little and it adds up.
12:19
Speaker 2
Right.
12:20
Speaker 1
And over time, these things we don't even notice, it really, really starts to adversely affect our relationship is that that's that's what they found.
12:29
Speaker 2
That is, Yep.
So the pattern that it kind of follows is there's a technological interruption, then there's conflict about the technology when there's a lot of it, and then the couple emotionally distances from each.
12:47
Speaker 1
Other.
So you tell me, hey, get off your phone or I tell you that.
Yeah.
And then we do.
But then we might feel miffed.
Yeah.
And then it just kind of spirals a little bit, a little emotional distance.
13:03
Speaker 2
That's exactly right.
13:04
How Actor-Observer Bias and Phubbing Erode Connection
So Scott, I want to just ask you a question here.
When do you notice me reaching for my phone the most and how does it make you feel during those times?
13:16
Speaker 1
Well, not as much at dinner at on date night.
So yeah, date night's typically pretty good in the car a lot yes.
In the.
13:27
Speaker 2
Car a lot.
I started that, actually, when we moved to Dallas.
We lived in rural Arizona for several years and driving around was piece of cake.
There were never more than two lanes with maybe a passing lane through the middle.
But when we moved to Dallas with I don't know how many lanes, 4.
13:43
Lanes of traffic going each direction 5 Sometimes I started to get really anxious about his driving.
13:50
Speaker 1
So that's your excuse.
You're worried about my driving and so you want to distract yourself by.
13:55
Speaker 2
Because you didn't like me complaining about your driving and you didn't like me saying slow down, stop, you're getting too close.
And so it started like that, but doing that over and over several times eventually led me to using that as a coping mechanism or maybe just the neuro pathway is formed that I just automatically do it now today after working through all of this research.
14:24
Speaker 1
And no racks.
No racks.
14:27
Speaker 2
Wow, that's because I was telling you that you were too close.
But it is something that becomes habitual.
Would you agree?
14:35
Speaker 1
Yes, absolutely.
No, Don't.
No.
Yes, you're right.
OK.
I don't want to use the word absolutely all the time, OK?
14:44
Speaker 2
Well then later work.
Wayne and her team examined over 1000 married couples and found that when husbands spent more time on entertainment media, whether scrolling, watching gaming, watching ball games, sports, any kind of entertainment kinds of things, both partners felt less satisfied in the marriage.
15:07
Speaker 1
And I think this shows up a lot in the research that it appears to affect the wives negatively more toward their spouse.
So I'm just saying that this phenomenon tends to be more likely to be seen in wise.
15:20
Speaker 2
So here's what's really wild, though.
15:22
Speaker 1
OK.
15:23
Speaker 2
McDaniel, who we've already talked about and his team actually tracked, instead of just having them report on what they thought, they actually tracked them for 10 days in a row to see how technology showed up in their time that they spent together.
15:40
Speaker 1
And what did they find?
15:41
Speaker 2
Well, that they use technology when they were together a lot more than they realized.
I think it was a really high percentage.
15:47
Speaker 1
Wait, what?
15:49
Speaker 2
In this study, they weren't just asking how much people use tech, but they looked at when and how they used it while hanging out as a couple.
15:58
Speaker 1
So like when we're watching a movie together and your messaging back and forth with your podcast assistant.
16:04
Speaker 2
You got me.
16:06
Speaker 1
Or I might be taking calls or texts from my patients.
I am on call 24 hours a day.
16:12
Speaker 2
So sometimes I have to.
So when we have time, yeah, when we have that time together, are we?
16:18
Speaker 1
Yes, we we want to be intentional about not letting as much as possible that be interrupted.
16:25
Speaker 2
Right, exactly.
16:25
Speaker 1
I 100% agree.
16:27
Speaker 2
Yep, the study also found out that when either person got distracted by their phone or tablet during couple time again with what they call techno ference in the in the study, both partners ended up less happy with their time together.
And when one partner noticed that the other was using their device, like we said in that other study, conflict wind up too.
16:48
Speaker 1
It's good enough for me, but not for thee.
That's what we're finding here.
So.
But yeah, that totally tracks though, honey, if I'm the one checking my phone, I say to myself subconsciously, hey, just for a second.
But if you do it, I think, hey, whoa, this is our time.
17:06
Speaker 2
Right.
And I do too.
So my guess is that as our listeners are more aware of this and start thinking about it, they'll notice some of their own patterns as well.
People give themselves grace, but they judge their partners use more harshly.
This is called the actor observer bias.
17:24
And it can actually feel like rejection to our partner when we use this kind of bias.
And interestingly, the study found that even when there was a little bit of phone use, it decreased the enjoyment of time together.
17:39
Speaker 1
Just a little, just even the tiniest, just a like 2 seconds.
Well, it would detract.
17:45
Speaker 2
I I was noticing I was at a conference this week and.
17:49
Speaker 1
Like 2 little seconds.
17:51
Speaker 2
I happened to be talking to a few people and one of the people was so good at just being present and engaging in the conversation, and another person I was talking to would listen for a few minutes and then she'd start texting while someone else was talking.
18:11
And it kind of irritated me a little bit.
And I think that for sure happens in marriage too.
Where if we?
18:17
Speaker 1
Just don't think about it.
We're not intentional.
18:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, if we notice that we're not the priority.
So having some boundaries around our use of funds to.
18:26
Speaker 1
Be really helpful getting together and having a meeting on this, being intentional about it, right?
Yeah.
So it can become obvious to both of us very plain.
18:39
Speaker 2
Indeed, here's something else that was kind of surprising about that study.
Simply watching TV or scrolling together didn't automatically boost satisfaction, even if they weren't looking at their phones.
18:53
Speaker 1
Wait, so if you're looking together on social media or whatever, technology media, yeah.
19:01
Speaker 2
So doing whatever we're doing together.
19:03
Speaker 1
Wait a minute here, my love.
We have on date night, every Friday night, we watch the movie together.
That's media, that's consuming media.
And I will tell you right now that I feel a lot closer to you, especially if it's a funny movie like the one last night all about my father or something like that.
19:21
It's Robert De Niro.
I Anyway, that was hilarious.
Kind of a.
19:26
Speaker 2
Take off of Meet the parents.
19:28
Speaker 1
It got panned and the reviews were bad, were bad, but I thought it was funny anyway.
Yeah, you fell asleep.
19:35
Speaker 2
Well, I was going to say, So if we're watching a movie together and I fall asleep, that decreases satisfaction for you, right?
19:43
Speaker 1
That does.
Yep, that's true.
19:45
Speaker 2
But also, if we're not laughing together, if we're not communicating about what we're watching, if we're just in our own worlds, still in whatever it is, you know, watching a ball game and giving high fives brings a lot of enjoyment to each other.
20:01
But sitting there and not communicating, it's just simply sitting next to each other.
That doesn't help marriage satisfaction.
20:09
Speaker 1
What I hear you saying is, with shared screen time, it only helps when you're both being intentional about it, right?
That's right.
20:15
Speaker 2
When you're engaged with each other, not just sitting side by side.
20:17
Speaker 1
OK, that makes sense.
That works with what my question here.
20:21
Speaker 2
Yeah.
So if you're just sitting side by side, not communicating about the technology that you're experiencing, that's called parallel viewing or parallel, parallel time rather than joint time.
So just be conscious about when you are.
20:39
And this is true when you're with your kids too, not just in marriage, but when you're together, consuming technology, just making it a togetherness thing, just engaging together.
20:50
Speaker 1
That makes a lot of sense.
So laughing together at our favorite TV show or movie, that's considered joint time, right?
That is positive time instead of parallel time where we're still together, but we're not.
We're not experiencing that connection.
21:06
Speaker 2
That's right.
The study really I think summed it up perfectly when they shared that relationship strength doesn't fall apart overnight, but it's either built or eroded just one step at a time, 1 little small choice at a time when it comes to technology.
21:23
Speaker 1
But it's only two seconds, honey, so well.
21:27
Speaker 2
Rarely is that the case.
They did have a few people in their study that 90% of the time did not use their phones during couple together time, but that was on the far end of abnormal.
Most did pick up their phones a lot.
21:44
I want to introduce you to a second concept from this research that I think most of us are hardly even aware of.
If you're under the age of 30, you've probably heard of this term.
I hadn't heard of it before, but it's the word fubbing.
21:59
Fubbing.
22:00
Speaker 1
So it's that's pH yeah, UUBBING, in case you're wondering.
22:05
Speaker 2
PH stands for phone, and Ubbing comes from snubbing.
So fubbing is when you're snubbing whoever you're with because you're on your phone.
It's what happens when your partner's face loses importance over whatever it is that's on your screen.
22:25
Speaker 1
So it's like this?
Yeah.
Honey, how you doing?
How was your day?
OK, that's great.
Like, like that.
Yeah.
22:33
Speaker 2
Or you might not even be talking to me.
I might be telling.
Oh.
22:36
Speaker 1
You're telling me something?
22:38
Speaker 2
And you just start checking you have a thought of something you need to do and.
22:43
Speaker 1
I got to do this before I forget this thought.
22:45
Speaker 2
So everybody, when you notice it happening this week, talk to your spouse about this and call them, call each other out, Say hey, that's fubbing, I think, or is that fubbing?
22:55
Speaker 1
That is annoying.
I feel annoyed when you do that to me.
Yeah, you don't do it very often, but I mean.
23:02
Speaker 2
And I also feel annoyed when you do it.
23:03
Speaker 1
To me there are other.
23:06
Speaker 2
Thing other emotions besides.
Is annoyance an emotion?
23:10
Speaker 1
It's it is for me.
23:11
Speaker 2
Yeah.
So there are so many studies on fubbing.
This research has all just come out within the last five years.
Very.
23:19
Speaker 1
Interesting research, yeah.
23:20
Speaker 2
And here some of the other things.
I'm not even going to say who all of the authors of the research are, because there were so many.
But the research does show a direct link between fubbing and lower marital satisfaction, loneliness and trust, just to name a few.
23:37
But higher depression, jealousy, and a host of other negative emotions.
So it.
23:45
Speaker 1
Amplified.
If I'm fubbing you then you feel lonely and depressed and not happy, right?
23:53
Speaker 2
OK, and if I'm fubbing you, how do you feel?
23:56
Speaker 1
Awesome, baby.
Just kidding.
OK, I'll remember.
No, I had a.
24:00
Speaker 2
Little more fubbing it.
24:01
Speaker 1
Is hard.
24:02
Speaker 2
It's not fun and I can see that even though when we're in the car and we're not looking at each other face to face.
Yeah, if I'm picking up my phone, doing stuff while we're talking or even if you're not talking, that is a form of fubbing that I need to be really conscious of and try to be more connected during those times.
24:17
Speaker 1
That was a great topic for our next couples council.
24:20
Using Constructive Conflict to Retrain Your Dopamine-Driven Brain
Yeah, good thinking.
That's really great.
Researchers have discovered that the more one spouse felt ignored by a phone, the more attachment anxiety kicked in.
24:32
Speaker 1
Yeah, I saw that in my research too.
We're pulling attachment.
24:35
Speaker 2
Attachment disorders that can be triggered by phone.
24:38
Speaker 1
Anxious attachment.
24:39
Speaker 2
Yep, they felt insecure, they felt less valued.
But here is kind of a hopeful part that I found in one study, and that's that couples who used constructive conflict skills when responding to dissatisfaction over phone use in marriage did better.
24:58
They were able to turn things around.
So there's a researcher named Carol Rustbolt who talks about how to work with dissatisfaction in relationships.
I guess I don't know if she's talking necessarily about overall dissatisfaction or if she's talking more about I'm dissatisfied right now at this moment with what you're doing.
25:20
But I very much see her research findings relating really well to fubbing and technoference.
And she came up with four different ways that we typically handle dissatisfaction.
The 2 positive ones are voice and loyalty responses.
25:39
And the two negative responses that we often use are withdrawing or attacking.
So if we're using voice and loyalty, we are able to buffer some of those negative effects of techno ference.
25:53
Speaker 1
So how does that look in real life?
Like what?
25:56
Speaker 2
That's a really good question.
It looks like verbalizing using your voice, using your language kindly to say when something's bothering you, it's expressing your needs directly.
Like, hey Scott, I really feel disconnected when we're both on our phones.
26:15
Notice I didn't say when you it's.
26:18
Speaker 1
Making it up.
26:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's making a a joint thing because loyalty is part of this conversation too.
So when we say it from a we then that's going to really help in this circumstance.
Can we have some no screen time tonight or?
26:37
Speaker 1
You betcha.
26:39
Speaker 2
Can we set a boundary around our date night that when we're talking, we, we just leave our phones in our pockets or in our purse or whatever?
And then she found that when they do problem solving together, instead of blaming, that's really helpful.
26:56
Like what's, what's the solution?
I'm noticing a pattern that we do this, how can we work together to solve this issue?
And again, like you said, this is a perfect topic for couples council.
27:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, I know When we use humor, that tends to kind of bring it down a few notches.
27:12
Speaker 2
That's exactly right.
Yeah.
When you're funny, it just helps me see the truth and what you're saying and not get defensive.
27:19
Speaker 1
Yeah.
We can typically find something humorous out of this situation.
Yeah.
27:24
Speaker 2
That's great.
I love that suggestion.
So basically voice.
Using voice means that we're staying engaged, we're communicating with care, and we can do this instead of attacking or withdrawing.
27:35
Speaker 1
Yeah, this also reminds me of a communication style.
We talked about our three communication.
27:42
Speaker 2
Tools.
27:43
Speaker 1
One of them being dear man.
Yeah.
And we don't have time to go on it on this episode, but go back and listen to that 33 Tools of communication.
27:54
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's one of my favourites.
27:56
Speaker 1
That's more formal, but very effective too.
27:59
Speaker 2
Yeah, great.
Thank you for sharing that.
I want to share the findings of another study that McDaniel and Coyne did where they found that those tiny interruptions, like we were talking about checking notifications mid conversation, really quickly, sending a text off on something, they do predict more conflict and lower satisfaction as well.
28:20
Speaker 1
I'm glad that's being supported.
That sounds like multiple studies are showing kind of the same direction, the same thing that's happening.
28:27
Speaker 2
That kind of lets none of us off the hook.
28:31
Speaker 1
Yeah, none of us off the hook, but it's good to see though that we can speak with some authority on this, that hey, look, any time that you're spending on your phone, even if it is 2 seconds, that's not involving your spouse can be detrimental, right?
28:48
You could set up, meet together, set up rules and things where you do have that time on your own.
Yeah.
28:54
Speaker 2
That's right.
There is one other study I wanted to point out from right here in Texas from Baylor University by James Roberts and Meredith David that showed that even minor partner phone use makes people feel less important and less connected in their relationships.
So that's same basically the thing that the same thing that the McDaniel and Coyne study said.
29:15
But I thought the just the phrase less important was really.
29:21
Speaker 1
You're not important to me right now.
You feel unimportant.
29:24
Speaker 2
And that's hard.
Loving really does communicate.
You're here, I'm making time for you, I'm being with you.
But something else is more interesting.
29:36
Speaker 1
And that message really lands deep.
I don't need you to stare at me non-stop, but scrolling while I'm talking about my day, my brain hears you don't matter right now.
That hurts.
29:48
Speaker 2
I'm really sorry for the times that I do that.
29:51
Speaker 1
Well, I forgive you and I'm sorry too 'cause I know I do this too.
To you.
Yeah.
Can we just do better?
29:59
Speaker 2
Yeah, let's work on this tomorrow in our couples council, OK?
Yes, I'd love to do that.
Now, I want to be clear here that we're not demonizing phones, we're not demonizing technology, but it's really about retraining our attention.
The average person touches their phone over 2000 times a day.
30:18
I don't know if you get the little notification every Sunday about how much you've used your phone within the last week.
I do a lot of my research, a lot of my work on my phone, so mine's pretty high.
That's a lot of my time that I'm on my phone.
I don't typically do a lot of social media, but those are things to be aware of.
30:35
Where are we, when and why are we using our phone, and can we cut that down by keeping it out of those important relationship time?
It's really not surprising that our brains start to drift toward a device instead of toward the person sitting next to us.
30:53
Being present really takes strengthening that muscle.
That's why we talk a lot about mindfulness on here.
That's why we talk a lot about meditation, strengthening that muscle in our brain to be present, and those are both tools that we can use to help overcome this.
31:11
Speaker 1
Is there anything that shows about the amount of time on media and relationship quality?
31:18
Speaker 2
That's really a good question because we all know somebody that spends tons of time almost addicted to their phones, right?
There's a study by Doctor Jeffrey Dew and Doctor Tulane that looked at over 1300 married adults and they found that the more time people spend on any kind of entertainment media like TV, social media, gaming, anything, the lower their marital satisfaction.
31:45
Speaker 1
So before we're talking about just picking up our phones a distraction, this is talking more about how much time.
31:55
Speaker 2
And here's the twist.
Wives satisfaction dropped more sharply when their husbands were heavy users than the other way around.
32:02
Speaker 1
So that goes back to kind of a trend that I think we're both seeing that, that it tends to affect the wives more negatively toward their spouse overall, right?
When there's perceived interruptions, when there's perceived length of time on on media, and that could be social media, movies, video, guns, like you said, it's a more negative experience for the wife, generally speaking.
32:27
Speaker 2
Right, That's what many of these studies have showed, the International three-year study.
And I love when you get longitudinal studies because then it shows, OK, here's the impact over time of spending a lot of time on entertainment with our devices over time.
32:43
The study found that problematic media use, things like constant phone interruptions, excessive gaming or even pornography use, was linked to lower marital satisfaction, mainly because it reduced partner responsiveness.
32:58
Speaker 1
I've just checked out.
Well, it sounds to me like we're using this excessive use addiction, however you want to put it, probably more as a coping.
33:06
Speaker 2
Trauma coping, I'm coping or stress coping, right?
Any of those things.
33:12
Speaker 1
Totally.
That's going.
33:13
Speaker 2
To not an excuse, but.
33:14
Speaker 1
As a yeah, decreased marital satisfaction, maybe we get to a point where it says, hey, what do we do then?
How do we do this?
How do we make this into a balance?
33:22
Speaker 2
That's tempting to say, let's just get rid of media.
What do you think about that?
33:27
Speaker 1
Well, I kind of like watching movies with you, my love.
That's going to be a hard ask.
33:33
Speaker 2
I really think it's more about balance, yeah, having the insight, our second cornerstone to recognize what we're doing with technology, what we're doing with media, how we're consuming it, when we're consuming it, why we're consuming it, how long we're consuming it.
33:52
Speaker 1
Just lay all that out for both of you without accusing attacking just.
33:57
Speaker 2
Lay it out.
33:59
Speaker 1
Apple will tell you how much time you spend on your phone, talk about it.
You both come up and say here's what it is.
What do we do about that?
34:07
Speaker 2
Right.
34:07
Speaker 1
Without attacking, I think these are.
34:09
Speaker 2
Conversations that we really need to have.
34:12
Speaker 1
Let's talk about some neuroscience now, shall we?
34:14
Speaker 2
That sounds like you're filled.
34:16
Speaker 1
If you've ever felt that irresistible pull to check your phone for no reason, don't worry.
It's not just you.
I think it's important.
It's all of us.
Yeah, it's all of us.
It's important to point out that there's a brain based reason behind it.
Every notification Ding, buzz or red bubble activates a tiny dopamine loop in the brain's reward system.
34:38
Dopamine by itself isn't pleasure, it's the anticipation of that pleasure.
34:46
Speaker 2
So our brains are the ones that are telling us to pick up the phone and check because there could be something good.
34:54
Speaker 1
Right, the dopamine is that anticipation of the pleasure.
The serotonin is more the actual pleasure portion.
OK so each ping says something important might be here.
You might miss out on that.
Microburst trains your brain to seek the next hit, even when it's meaningless.
35:13
Over time, this rewires your attention.
Your mind starts scanning for novelty instead of staying with what's right in front of you, like your spouse's face, their story, or their touch.
35:26
Speaker 2
That because your face is so common to me.
35:30
Speaker 1
That I I see novelty.
35:32
Speaker 2
Really novel, huh?
That's really fascinating.
35:35
Speaker 1
Neuroscientists call this variable reward conditioning.
It's the same principle like playing slot machines used to keep people pulling that lever so it rewards you in a variable fashion.
35:50
Speaker 2
So you can't ever.
35:51
Speaker 1
You can't predict predict.
Yep.
Wow.
For couples, that means notifications literally compete with their partner for that neural real estate.
36:00
Speaker 2
Maybe we need to turn off notifications or a lot of the notifications that we have.
36:05
Speaker 1
That's that's a great start.
Great idea.
36:08
Speaker 2
That's good.
36:09
Speaker 1
So it does become harder to be emotionally present when those things are going on.
The good news is we can retrain our brains to think differently.
Like you said, Heidi, just having these times where we just turn our everything off and just being intentional and just savor each moment together, that really helps to rebuild that connection, those neurons.
36:32
Leveraging Technology for Intimacy with Our 10-Minute Tech Check
With all the bad rap here, Heidi, about technology that we just shared with people, is there anything good with tech they can help you to feel closer?
36:44
Speaker 2
Well, when we were on our date last night, we recognized what we were doing and we pulled out the Gottman app called Card Decks and we started asking each other questions.
36:55
Speaker 1
We do that every week where we try to.
36:58
Speaker 2
Our alarm goes off at 7:30 PM every Friday night to remind us to do that.
37:02
Speaker 1
Gottman Card.
37:03
Speaker 2
See, there's another good use of tech.
37:05
Speaker 1
That is a good use of.
We have an.
37:06
Speaker 2
Alarm going off and it reminds us.
37:09
Speaker 1
It compels us.
37:11
Speaker 2
Who look inside each other's brains and ask each other questions.
37:15
Speaker 1
What is the thing you look most forward to?
What's the place you most want to visit?
Things like that.
37:21
Speaker 2
If you were on an island stranded, what is one thing that you would take outside of just the basics like food, water filter, just interesting things that help us understand each other's brains.
That's true connection.
What about?
37:36
Speaker 1
Texting each other during the day.
37:38
Speaker 2
I think you must also have an alarm set to text me during lunch.
37:42
Speaker 1
I don't.
37:43
Speaker 2
You just think about.
37:44
Speaker 1
It well, I try to call you and when I can't call you, I send you a little kissy emoji.
37:49
Speaker 2
Yeah, and all of that takes what, 5 seconds?
37:55
Speaker 1
Yeah.
37:55
Speaker 2
Or less.
I know that you're thinking about me.
I know that you love me, especially when you're really busy seeing patients.
38:01
Speaker 1
High return for a very low investment.
38:04
Speaker 2
Right.
Things like that help us have greater intimacy.
There are other apps out there for date night conversation starters.
We can use technology to share our calendars so we know what events are coming up for each of us.
We know what's going on.
One thing that we've loved about technology is creating playlists.
38:22
We have different playlists for different things that we do together.
38:26
Speaker 1
Breakfast.
Yep, Saturday winter.
38:28
Speaker 2
Breakfasts.
Yeah, making dinner together.
38:31
Speaker 1
Bedroom.
Yeah, that kind of stuff.
Yeah.
We can listen to podcasts like Marriage IQ Together.
38:36
Speaker 2
And that's the best one right there.
And we do it together and we stop and we and we talk about what we're learning that is deep connection, that's intimate.
Some couples may have online marriage therapy.
38:52
That's another great thing that's come about since COVID.
And so there are a lot of good things.
I think technology's a lot like fire.
You can use it to cook dinner, or you can use it to burn the house down.
So just seeking for insight into your patterns of technology use will help you approach it with intentionality and increase your intimacy.
39:14
Brendan McDaniel and his colleagues said it's really important for couples and families to evaluate, monitor and be willing to adapt their technology usage patterns so that these patterns don't cause conflict and possibly relationship deterioration over time.
So basically it's being intentional with several of our cornerstones, but particularly with the cornerstone of intentionality.
39:35
Speaker 1
Let's review those First cornerstone identity.
Second one intentionality.
Third insight, 4th, intimacy.
They all start with I, me, myself and I.
39:48
Speaker 2
All right, we came up with a little 10 minute tech check in for you, if you can say that 10 times.
39:56
Speaker 1
10 minute check, 10 minute tech.
39:59
Speaker 2
Check, you did it. 10 minute tech check.
All right, so we've confessed lots of our techno Ference habits to you here.
40:07
Speaker 1
Today and our sins.
40:09
Speaker 2
And now it's your turn.
So grab your spouse, grab your phone, but don't check it yet.
And let's run through a quick three-part tech check to see if you and your devices are helping or harming your marriage.
So we're going to make this into APDF that you can find underthefreebiestab@marriageiq.com.
40:27
The first one is ask each other.
When does tech interrupt us the most?
I asked Scott that question and he said when we're in the car driving and he's right and it was important for me to know how he feels about that, but also when do we feel the most connected?
40:44
And then let's amplify.
40:45
Speaker 1
That naked movie night, that's when I feel most connected.
40:52
Speaker 2
Did I just turn 5 shoes of red then choose one?
No phone zone now.
40:59
Speaker 1
You know why I like movies?
41:02
Speaker 2
So it could be meal time when you're going on walks together or once you're both in bed with a shared bedtime.
Then we want to give you some language for repairing when you're feeling like your spouse is when they're techno interference is just too much for your taste.
41:21
So instead of using the you and pointing fingers, you can use the adapted model of our dear man approach.
And that is when you're on your phone.
I feel blank.
And then you might say I feel invisible, I feel neglected or whatever emotion it is that you feel.
41:40
And then you say, could we agree to one tech free ritual every day like dinnertime, date night, drives, in the car, bedtime, whatever.
So be clear about it and say this is how I feel.
Can we change this in this way?
41:57
Speaker 1
And I actually like what you said earlier too, because when we're both having this problem, you can say, hey, when we do this instead of when you do it, it can go either way.
But I like how you said it.
When you say when we do it, it invites equality, right in this conversation.
42:14
Speaker 2
So use the when you I feel say one partner is into gaming and the other is not.
42:21
Speaker 1
Right.
And if there's a clear imbalance, right?
Yeah, that makes sense.
I hope everyone understood the difference there.
Yeah.
42:28
Speaker 2
And then for the third step, we want you to come up with three ways that technology really helps or could help your marriage.
If you can't think of three ways that it does help your marriage, think of three things that you could do with technology to help your marriage and then do those more intentionally.
42:44
So try that out this week.
That's a great little homework exercise.
42:49
Speaker 1
We really hope you'll join us for Part 2 of this episode on Friday, where we'll dive deeper into the ways social media can actually help or hurt you as individuals, and by extension, your marriage.
And we are so glad you joined us today.
We'll see you next time on another exciting episode of Marriage IQ.
