Episode 144: Why It’s So Hard to Really Listen to Your Spouse
Why Your Spouse Needs More Than Just Your Attention
The Lost Art of Listening: How Radical Listening Can Transform Your Marriage
We often think good communication in marriage means knowing what to say. But sometimes, the most powerful thing you can do for your spouse is say less—and truly listen.
Listening sounds simple. We hear our partner’s words, respond, and move on. Yet deep, intimate listening requires much more than simply hearing what someone says. It requires attention, curiosity, emotional presence, and the willingness to resist the urge to defend, fix, explain, or offer advice.
Even couples who teach communication skills can struggle with this.
In a recent conversation on Marriage IQ, Scott and Heidi Hastings explored what they call radical listening—the kind of listening that helps a spouse feel genuinely heard, understood, validated, and cared for.
Listening Is More Than Hearing Words
Scott openly admitted that he considered himself a good listener, but realized his listening skills were not as strong as he thought. His professional background had trained him to ask questions, identify problems, and find solutions. Without realizing it, he sometimes brought that same mindset home.
Instead of simply listening to Heidi, he could slip into “expert mode”—offering an opinion, solving a problem, or defending himself when something she said made him uncomfortable.
And that is something many couples can relate to.
When your spouse shares a problem, your first instinct may be to fix it. When they express frustration with something you did, you may immediately want to explain yourself. When they share an idea, you may already be preparing your opinion.
But sometimes your spouse isn't asking for a solution.
They are asking you to be with them in the conversation.
What Makes a Conversation Feel Intimate?
Research discussed in the episode points to an important distinction: intimate communication isn't simply about sharing information. Emotional self-disclosure and how the other partner responds play a major role in whether the conversation actually feels intimate.
Think about what happens when you're sharing something vulnerable with your spouse.
You notice whether they're looking at their phone. You notice whether they're distracted. You notice whether they seem interested—or whether their eyes have glazed over.
Even if they technically heard every word, you may not feel heard.
That's why perceived partner responsiveness matters so much. What matters isn't only whether your spouse is listening, but whether you experience them as attentive, compassionate, and invested in what you're saying.
Three Things Every Deep Listener Needs
The episode highlights three important elements of deep listening:
1. Understanding
Try to accurately understand your spouse's feelings and needs rather than immediately interpreting them through your own perspective.
2. Validation
You don't have to agree with everything your spouse says. Validation means respecting their emotional reality without immediately telling them they're wrong.
3. Caring
Your spouse needs to experience genuine concern for their wellbeing—not simply receive a response that sounds appropriate.
This is where listening becomes much more than a communication technique. It becomes a way of communicating, “You matter to me.”
Sometimes Your Body Speaks Louder Than Your Words
Radical listening doesn't require constant talking.
Eye contact, leaning in, nodding, facial expressions, touch, and simply remaining focused can communicate enormous amounts. In fact, some of the most intimate moments can happen when the listener isn't saying very much at all.
But silence alone isn't enough.
Your spouse needs cues that you're emotionally present.
A small “That makes sense,” a gentle touch, a thoughtful question, or simply staying engaged can make a vulnerable conversation feel safer.
Why Deep Listening Is So Hard
Here's the uncomfortable truth: deep listening takes work.
When we feel criticized, misunderstood, or emotionally uncomfortable, our nervous system can move quickly into defense. We start preparing our argument. Our speech speeds up. Our voice gets louder. We explain, justify, correct, or judge.
At that point, we're no longer listening deeply. We're preparing to protect ourselves.
The episode emphasizes the importance of managing emotional flooding, suppressing defensiveness, and developing the ability to tolerate differences without trying to fix the other person.
That doesn't happen overnight.
It's a skill that develops through practice.
A Simple Challenge for Your Marriage
Try something different this week.
When your spouse starts talking about something important, put your phone away. Look at them. Don't immediately offer advice. Don't formulate your response while they're speaking.
Instead, become curious.
Ask yourself:
What are they feeling?
What do they need from me right now?
What would help them feel safe enough to keep opening up?
The goal isn't to become a perfect listener. Even Scott and Heidi acknowledge that this is a lifelong learning process.
The goal is to become a spouse who keeps choosing presence.
Because sometimes the difference between emotional distance and deeper intimacy isn't another communication technique.
It's simply this:
“I'm here. I'm listening. I want to understand you.”
And when your spouse can genuinely feel that, you're not just having a conversation.
You're strengthening your marriage.
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0:00
Speaker 1
Welcome to Marriage IQ, the podcast helping you become an intelligent spouse.
0:06
Speaker 2
I'm Heidi Hastings.
0:07
Speaker 1
And I'm Scott Hastings, Gabba Dabba Doo.
Hello, you intelligent lovers out there.
We are back just tidying up, saving civilization one marriage at a time.
Yes, the past two months we've had guests only as you could tell as we took a little summer break to intend to some important duties.
0:31
Speaker 2
And actually, we haven't exactly been sitting around all summer.
We've been working on some really fun collaborations with other marriage experts.
One of them is the Intimacy Vault that's coming out in September, and it's a collection of resources from marriage and intimacy experts designed to help couples strengthen a lot of different areas of their relationship.
0:52
We created an assessment and some practical tools for that, so we're going to share it with you in about a month.
We're really excited about it and we've also been collaborating with some of our friends over at the Dating Divas and Get Your Marriage On.
They created a really fun couples app called Sparked.
It's basically this whole playground for your marriage, date night ideas, games, quizzes, activities you can do together, plus resources for everything from communication to intimacy.
1:18
We'll put a link to that in today's episode.
1:20
Speaker 1
But we're back together again, like the Wonder Twins.
1:25
Speaker 2
Power Unite.
1:27
Speaker 1
Just us and our energy today, our excitement, our message to you that marriage is totally cool and totally scintillating.
Yeah.
So we have an exciting episode planned for you today.
1:44
But first we come to you.
I come to you begging, pleading, groveling.
Please, please, please.
It will take you literally 10 seconds to do this.
I didn't tell you about this, Heidi.
2:01
Speaker 2
What are you groveling?
2:03
Speaker 1
I am groveling.
We've made it a personal goal to reach 1000 followers on Spotify.
If you have not followed us on Spotify, go there now.
I'm pleading with you.
2:15
Speaker 2
He's down on his knees for those of you who are listening and not watching.
2:19
Speaker 1
Click the Follow button.
That's it.
2:23
Speaker 2
And really, I don't know that our listeners know this, but if you click the follow button and then you hit comment, what it does is it triggers the algorithm, whether it's YouTube or Spotify.
So it promotes our episode to other people.
But if people don't follow us, if people don't leave us comments and we get some conversation going, then we really have a tough time growing.
2:44
So that's why he's begging and pleading on his knees.
2:49
Speaker 1
Then tell all your friends to do the same thing.
I was thinking about giving out bumper stickers or T-shirts to everyone who did that and you said no, it would cost too much.
So what?
What do we do here?
A virtual hug?
An air high 5 there.
3:06
Speaker 2
You go.
3:07
Speaker 1
OK, we'll do it.
OK.
Thank you.
We love you, all right?
You're ready to rock.
3:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, ready to rock?
3:15
Speaker 1
And roll.
You're ready to sparkle.
You.
You're ready to scintillate.
Yeah, there we go.
Great.
So are we.
Let's jump in today's topic of radical listening.
Heidi, I have been doing a little experiment on you the past few weeks.
3:32
Speaker 2
What?
3:34
Speaker 1
Did you know that?
3:35
Speaker 2
Well, you experiment on everything.
Everything's about science and data, so it doesn't surprise me, but I'm really curious about what you've been doing as an experiment about on me.
3:47
Speaker 1
I am like a little scientist in my little love laboratory.
3:51
Speaker 2
All the time.
3:52
Speaker 1
And you, my love, are my subject.
Well, we've talked about this many times on the podcast in the past about the importance of truly listening to your spouse, like episode 97, The Spy Techniques That Improve Communication with Jeremy Horowitz.
4:10
Speaker 2
Yes, like Jeremy Horowitz.
4:12
Speaker 1
We probably quote that episode more than a lot of the others.
Yeah, because of the FMDJ voice, right?
You really like that?
4:20
Speaker 2
Remember Lila?
What was her name?
The FM DJ that would come on at night.
4:26
Speaker 1
Oh yeah, the love songs.
4:27
Speaker 2
Yeah, Delilah, Delilah.
She would take requests from phone calls and then she'd play these songs.
And I don't have any idea what she looked like.
But because her voice was so low and slow, we really tuned in.
4:42
We wanted to pay attention.
We felt love in the air.
4:46
Speaker 1
So Jeremy Horowitz episode 98, The real reason couples feel misunderstood.
So go back and listen episode 97 and 98.
So we teach this stuff, right?
So we should be experts.
We should be really good at.
5:00
Speaker 2
This we should be.
5:02
Speaker 1
Don't get caught up in the fawning over the expert fallacy.
I I thought I was a good listener.
In fact, one of the attributes I tell myself daily is that I am an elite listener to Heidi.
5:17
But was I really?
The short answer is no, I wasn't.
It's not that I didn't want to be a good listener, and living with ADHD makes it a lot harder for me.
5:30
Speaker 2
Especially at night when anything that you used to help you with that it's kind of worn off Zing.
5:38
Speaker 1
But my listening skills were really put to the test.
A few weeks ago we went out to visit a friend in Idaho.
Good friends of ours.
Fact.
He went to Med school with me, residency with me.
5:55
Speaker 2
Indiana and Kansas City, they lived with us for seven years.
5:59
Speaker 1
He died suddenly.
Sudden heart attack.
6:03
Speaker 2
Devastating.
6:04
Speaker 1
You know, what do you do, right?
Like it was crushing to hear that news for someone that we, you know, that we knew so closely.
And I remember sitting in this restaurants for two hours giving undivided, utterly unopposed attention for to his grieving wife.
6:29
Cut that other part out.
Two straight hours.
It was exhausting.
I have never in my life done anything like that.
6:38
Speaker 2
Wasn't exhausting to me.
6:40
Speaker 1
Wow, that was so hard.
Psychologically hard.
You know, when I talked to Heidi about it, You know, why is it so hard for me to listen all the way down the row without responding?
6:53
Speaker 2
And by responding, just to clarify, do you mean without saying anything or do you mean without inputting your perspective on things?
Because I think you did a fair job of saying things like, wow, that's so hard, or.
7:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, well, that can't believe it.
That was the example of me doing it right.
7:14
Speaker 2
OK.
7:15
Speaker 1
And it was hard.
That's my point.
It was excruciating psychologically because I really like she just lost her husband.
I have to like full court press on here, right?
So to answer your question without me maybe giving my perspective or without me trying to solve a problem for you.
7:34
Speaker 2
OK.
Or tell her what she should do.
Or tell her.
Well, at least, right?
Right.
At least you've got the girls still, or at least I don't know what you might have said.
7:45
Speaker 1
Yeah, other offensive words to say when people are grieving.
Don't say the words at least.
7:51
Speaker 2
Yeah, I was really proud of you.
7:53
Speaker 1
Part of my problem, not really a problem, more like a Collider, is my profession, listening profoundly for a few minutes, asking a few direct and probing questions, and then coming up with the medical solution many times a day.
8:11
I just kind of took it home with me without realizing it and started treating you like a patient.
What kind of profession do you work in out there?
Let us know.
Does it cause you to terminate intimate conversations at your home prematurely?
8:28
Are you bringing your work home with you?
Even noting this data and trying it out in real time, I was unavailable and unable to listen all the way to you because I shifted back into my doctor mode.
8:43
Speaker 2
Which makes you the expert, right?
8:46
Speaker 1
Yeah, right.
It was uncomfortable for me to hear you speak about your reactions to something that I did or was involved with without interrupting you to defend myself.
You know, that was hard.
9:01
Not that you were attacking me, I just wanted to set the record straight so you didn't keep thinking something I thought was incorrect.
Instead, I let my default reaction network take off whenever I felt even a little bit psychologically uncomfortable with you.
9:18
I start feeling my heart rate kind of pick up.
My mind begins to race to find evidence for my defense, and my speech becomes really pressured and louder.
Yeah, you know all about.
9:31
Speaker 2
That and the arm motions get.
9:34
Speaker 1
They get bigger and bigger.
9:35
Speaker 2
Expressions on your face get more intense and not like anger, it's not like that.
But yes, very dramatic.
9:44
Speaker 1
Very dramatic.
Yeah.
Argh.
9:47
Speaker 2
That that's insight right there.
9:52
Speaker 1
Luckily, I remembered that we also talked in the past about this taking a lifetime to learn, right?
So pressure's kind of off a little bit, right?
It's going to take us a lifetime.
10:07
So let's Fast forward to date night last night, because that was a good night.
It went a little bit better, right?
10:15
Speaker 2
It was great.
10:16
Speaker 1
So you discussed this need for me during Thanos during one of our nightly walks.
About me listening better to you.
10:25
Speaker 2
Yeah, Thanos is a communication tool.
If you're new to marriage IQ, go back to the episode called 3 Communication Tools and we explain in depth about Thanos.
Or you can find it on our website.
10:38
Speaker 1
Yeah, Thanos is kind of one of those things where it's a default.
It helps us if we're getting lost, we get to push reset, go on a nightly walk and do our Thanos.
And one of those items is you need me to do something for you.
10:54
And one of them was to listen to you better.
10:58
Speaker 2
And I also told you what I appreciated about you specifically listening to me during our date last night.
11:06
Speaker 1
You liked it, didn't you?
Yeah.
You felt heard, right?
That's awesome.
So I thought I was doing everything right, and in the end, my experiment showed that I was doing things very wrong.
Well, let's jump into the scientific literature, shall we?
11:22
That's what I like to do.
Sure.
Lauren O In 1998, the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology discuss what makes a conversation intimate between two spouses.
Now, this isn't a conversation where you feel necessarily heard, but that you feel very intimate with me.
11:46
I think there's a difference.
We're talking about radical listening here.
11:51
Speaker 2
Instead of just I'm listening to you give facts or I'm listening to you tell about your day.
It's more intimate than that.
I'm truly interested, engaged and invested in what you're talking about, right?
12:05
Speaker 1
And you might be opening up to me about something really vulnerable.
Yeah, so this is a big deal.
This isn't just like, you know, weather's good, you know, how was your day kind of a thing?
12:18
Speaker 2
I think Brené Brown talks a lot about vulnerability creates connection, and really that's what we want when we're talking about intimacy.
But if I can't be vulnerable because the doctor shows up to tell me what's right and what's wrong instead of just letting me express, then the intimacy won't go as deeply as it could.
12:42
And we do get to really deep, intimate conversations from time to time.
But I think what you're talking about is learning the skills for that.
12:54
Speaker 1
Right.
If you can't feel vulnerable in your spouse because of poor listening skills, then you're kind of cut off at the pass, right?
So we're we're helping you learn that today.
So what makes a conversation intimate between two spouses?
13:12
As we said earlier, self disclosure.
And secondly, partner responsiveness.
That is the one listening in this study.
Lorneau found.
If you are the speaker, you are the one telling the story, the intimate story.
13:28
The biggest predictor of how that was perceived as intimate by you was how you perceived me receiving it.
13:41
Speaker 2
OK, so let me see if I've got this right.
I'm being vulnerable.
I'm talking to you.
If I see you pick up your phone or check what time it is, or be watching the people at the next table at the restaurant, or you kind of have glazed over eyes and my perception is you're not with me.
13:58
This isn't a safe place to talk about whatever vulnerable thing I'm talking about.
It's more based upon my perception than when you what you are actually doing.
14:08
Speaker 1
So I could be sitting there thinking, I'm looking straight at her, I'm looking right at your eyes, I am nodding my head, but none of that matters.
The only thing that matters is your perception of how deeply I'm invested in what you're saying.
That was the biggest predictor of perception of intimate communication, the speaker's perception.
14:30
Speaker 2
I would say that's probably accurate, at least from my perspective.
14:36
Speaker 1
Yeah, well, so did they.
14:38
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, there's another study.
According to Harry Rice and Phillip Shaver, the deep level of intimate listening requires 3 huge ingredients.
The first one's understanding so the listener accurately perceives the speaker's feelings and needs.
14:55
The second thing is they need validation, so the listener is conveying respect for the speaker's emotional reality without judgement.
And then the third thing is caring.
So the listener is showing genuine concern for the speaker's well-being.
15:12
Speaker 1
I thought I was already doing that, not Was I not understanding you?
Was I not validating?
15:21
Speaker 2
You, you know what you're really, really good at?
You're super good at me talking, there being a 10 second pause and then you still being able to go back in your brain somewhere, catch what I said and respond to it.
I have no clue how you do it.
15:37
It's really a gift, but it doesn't really express the validation, the understanding or the caring.
It shows you have a superpower that's really awesome.
You cannot listen and then your brain can regurgitate for you what I said.
15:54
Speaker 1
Little birds regurgitate food for their You know regurgitation is not all bad, so I didn't care about and for you while listening, right?
16:05
Speaker 2
And I do it too, right?
If we're on our phone, on our computer, doing other things while we're talking, when it's an intimate conversation, we're not going to have those kind of conversations with everybody, but we will with people that we really care about.
16:20
Speaker 1
Right.
And I thought I was doing it all right.
I mean, we teach this stuff.
So the perceived partner responsiveness makes all the difference.
It doesn't matter so much how invested I was in your intimate sharing as much as it's how you perceived how attentive and compassionate I was.
16:42
Another study by Vasserman in 2022 in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, and another study by Joel in 2020 found that by far the most important component of determining the depth of intimate communications between spouses was this perceived partner responsiveness.
17:03
Speaker 2
Which is really another way of saying deep listening.
17:06
Speaker 1
Deep listening.
In fact, in that study that Joel did of over 11,000 couples, perceived partner responsiveness and commitment made-up almost half of all the answers as to why the satisfied couples were satisfied.
17:22
Speaker 2
So, in other words, because they thought their partner was intimately listening to them with understanding, with validation, and with caring, they're happier in their marriage.
17:32
Speaker 1
Right all the way around by far.
17:35
Speaker 2
Simple way to say it, Doctor Sue Johnson, the creator of Emotionally Focused Therapy, demonstrated that deep listening acts as an attachment safety mechanism.
That reminds me of Doctor Sue Johnson, who's the creator of Emotionally Focused Therapy, or EFT, and she talks about how deep listening really helps us be able to attach or deeply.
17:59
It's a part of attachment.
And if our partner's not really listening to us that deeply, then it's hard to be more attached to them.
But she talks about how when we really have that deep, intimate listening, three attachment questions are satisfied.
18:19
The first one is, are you accessible to me or are you off somewhere else in your brain?
Or do you have?
18:25
Speaker 1
Other why have you do I have your brain?
18:28
Speaker 2
Yep.
The second one is, are you responsive to me?
Are you acting like you are listening, or are you truly listening in a way that allows you to respond to me?
And then the third one is, are you emotionally engaged with me?
18:44
And that's where we start getting to go deeper.
18:48
Speaker 1
So I think too people who have like say anxious attachment where it might be a little bit harder to to have intimate relationships with, I think it makes it easier for them to have a satisfactory relationship when they can feel that intimate close.
19:06
Speaker 2
Communication that my needs are being met because their childhood may have taught them that their needs aren't going to be met and that's when they start pulling away or start coming in too too needy.
But I think spouses can really feel insecure generally when they believe that they're not being listened to or heard, especially in that deep way.
19:28
Speaker 1
Look, we all have idiosyncrasies, how we listen, right?
Like for you, you might nod your head or you might lean in a little bit.
That's given me a cue over time that you are very interested, invested in what I'm doing because we've had this relationship for a while.
19:44
I'm learning this is body language, but it's learned body language.
Some people might be better at reflecting or they might be better at intensely looking or touched, but there are some things that I've learned from you over time in our relationship that I know, OK.
20:02
She is deeply listening.
You generally listen very well just off the bat, but I know that you tend to focus in.
On our conversation, you ask questions that are very probing and so I know that you are deeply invested.
20:24
You know, other people might not ask as many questions, but still maybe, you know, lean in and focus 0 in nod their head.
What habits with all of your personality quirks reinforce your confidence or your spouse's confidence that you are invested?
20:43
Listen up folks, words matter.
They do matter, but sometimes they don't.
And this is one of those times, right?
Sometimes the most deeply intimate moments between two people is when there is very little talking from the listener or even no talking.
21:01
Sounds crazy, right?
So, Heidi, what was it about last night's date specifically, or date night?
21:08
Speaker 2
That's a great question.
21:09
Speaker 1
Helped you feel like I was in the zone with you.
21:15
Speaker 2
Yeah.
So I was expressing some really vulnerable parts about trying to figure out who I am and explore this part of life where some things have shifted a little bit, where I want my business and my career to go, how I want our interactions together in this business to go.
21:37
And you looked at me, I could tell it was so hard for you.
Sometimes I could see you wandering, but you would really push yourself to come back.
And that was a big deal, even though it wasn't perfect, the fact that you.
21:51
Speaker 1
You could see me trying so hard the.
21:53
Speaker 2
Fact that you were trying so hard really meant a lot.
Instead of giving me your opinion on things, you just listened to me and let me express some of my things.
When you give me your opinion, a lot like the medical expert, I tend to not rely on my own decision making.
22:12
I tend to rely on your expert opinion and we're trying to work really hard on shifting that and it does take listening.
So you did that.
I think you would touch my hand every once in a while.
You would give me some positive things, like that's a really cool idea.
22:31
Or, you know, I think you're spot on with that.
Just little comments like that.
It wasn't you just sitting there not saying anything, giving me a little bit of validation to keep exploring the ideas that I was trying to.
22:49
Yeah.
22:49
Speaker 1
So you felt heard?
Yeah.
And deeply connected to.
22:54
Speaker 2
And you weren't looking at your watch.
You weren't looking at your phone.
You were there with me for the duration of however long it took me to get things out.
23:02
Speaker 1
Even though a sudden thunderstorm completely derailed our plans for the restaurant, we were going to go and we ended up at some random Thai restaurant.
23:14
Speaker 2
We were flexible.
23:15
Speaker 1
Plano.
Yep.
Oh, it was all good.
23:18
Speaker 2
And that part right there was the highlight of the whole evening, just being able to go way deeper and for me to feel heard.
What I hear you saying, Scott, is that deep listening actually takes really intense psychological work.
23:35
Speaker 1
Severe.
23:37
Speaker 2
Severe.
23:37
Speaker 1
Psychological work.
This is not easy.
It's severe.
23:41
Speaker 2
OK, so first of all, we got to be able to manage our emotional flooding when you talked about me having an opinion or desire different than what yours is, how you would kind of feel it in your body that makes you uncomfortable.
24:01
And when you get uncomfortable, you want to start speaking and getting bigger and defending or or explaining or validating yourself.
24:09
Speaker 1
And judging.
24:10
Speaker 2
And judging and what you're saying is just pull that back.
24:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, Godman says non judgmental listening shuts down when this flooding happens.
24:20
Speaker 2
OK, so being able to sit in discomfort, just breathe deeply or whatever it takes to just be like, I can float through this emotional flooding that's happening in me.
Suppression of defensiveness is another thing that you were talking about.
24:35
David Schnarz, that we really like and quote on here often says that non judgmental listening requires intense emotional differentiation.
That means you're different from me, I'm different from you, and we have different opinions.
24:51
We're not trying to fix each other's.
24:52
Speaker 1
No fixing.
24:54
Speaker 2
We're we're listening to each other without it getting us too emotionally.
25:01
Speaker 1
Flooded.
No fixing.
25:03
Speaker 2
That's right.
25:03
Speaker 1
The third thing is a cognitive load.
So Gobbin found that active listening was so emotionally taxing that almost nobody could sustain it.
So meaning they had a Thunder and 30 couples in there, and it was so overwhelming for them that almost no one could sustain this emotional intelligence in real time, which is hard, right?
25:30
That's part of our lifetime of learning.
So then what are we supposed to do?
I think jump in the water with your spouse.
If they're in the freezing river, you just jump in with them.
That's my answer.
What do you think?
25:45
Speaker 2
I think it takes practice, just like going to the gym, just like.
25:50
Speaker 1
But I can't get to know you, what you're feeling right now, unless I'm jumping in with you.
25:59
Speaker 2
That's right.
25:59
Speaker 1
I'm feeling what you're feeling.
That's the only way to really understand you.
26:04
Speaker 2
Or you're probing with enough curiosity that you can feel what I feel.
26:09
Speaker 1
All right, let's go over some listening myths before we wrap up, shall we?
26:12
Speaker 2
Sure.
26:14
Speaker 1
So #1A good listener says words all the time.
False.
We talked about that earlier.
Actual words make up a minority of intimate conversation.
A lot of it, as we said, is body language.
26:30
Engaged eye contact, leaning in, nodding our head, matching that emotional energy with our spouse.
They're all so important #2 some words are trite when they're said often.
26:44
Speaker 2
True.
26:45
Speaker 1
False.
That must be really hard.
26:48
Speaker 2
Why is that false?
I think some words can be tried.
26:52
Speaker 1
That is false.
It's how you say them that's the difference.
So I think what I'm getting at is what is the meaning behind these words?
How are the words delivered?
And you can use lots of words over and over again if they're delivered in a way that's very meaningful.
27:12
Speaker 2
So here's one that I hear a lot.
I love that for you.
Well.
27:16
Speaker 1
How's it said?
Right, Right.
I love that for you.
They don't care, right?
When you hear that.
27:23
Speaker 2
That's kind of what I feel.
27:24
Speaker 1
But what if I said I really love that for you?
Like that is awesome.
27:29
Speaker 2
That is.
27:30
Speaker 1
You see the difference?
27:31
Speaker 2
That's much better.
27:32
Speaker 1
So like words like, you know, that must really be hard.
27:37
Speaker 2
Yeah, that can sound really trite.
27:38
Speaker 1
That can sound trite unless you are really meaning it.
Yeah.
God, that must really be hard.
27:46
Speaker 2
That was much better I would feel.
27:48
Speaker 1
'Cause I'm jumping in the river with you, that's why.
27:50
Speaker 2
OK, gotcha.
27:51
Speaker 1
That cold, icy river, I'm jumping in.
So back to some words are trite when they're set, often false.
You said it was true, I said it's false and this is you.
28:03
Speaker 2
Explained why and I agree with you now.
OK.
28:07
Speaker 1
OK #3 good listening skills can't be taught.
28:12
Speaker 2
False.
28:13
Speaker 1
You're just born with them.
That is false, right?
I think a lot of men might think this.
I don't know how to listen.
Or, you know, it's a gender thing, which is probably true #4 once I get all these good listening skills in my tool belt, I will always be a great listener.
28:31
That is false.
Sorry.
Just ask us, you know?
So what can you do this week to become a better listener?
Sit with yourself and discover what you normally do when you're actively excited and interesting and discovering something new.
28:48
For some of you, it might be a new stock tip, a new cave to explore, a new computer code, a new trip somewhere, something that really excites you.
And then pay attention to how you pay attention.
Then try it on your spouse.
29:05
Try listening all the way through with full attention to your spouse and jump in that river with them.
Listen actively.
Listen excruciatingly.
Oh.
29:16
Speaker 2
Are you sure about that?
Yes, sounds painful.
29:19
Speaker 1
This requires intense psychological work do.
29:24
Speaker 2
You really think that people are willing to put in the intense psychological work to have really amazing marriages?
29:31
Speaker 1
The intelligent spouse will.
29:33
Speaker 2
Good.
I hope so.
29:35
Speaker 1
And get this book.
It's The Lost Art of Listening.
It's by Michael Nichols, Martha Strauss that we've used here on this podcast before.
Some excellent insights on that.
They kind of support what we talked about today.
29:50
Speaker 2
About how listening can improve relationships.
Thanks everybody for being with us today on Marriage IQ and we'll see you next week on another exciting episode of.
another exciting episode of.
30:00
Speaker 1
Marriage IQ.
