Episode 146: Quiet Quitting in Marriage: When One Spouse Checks Out
Before Your Marriage Falls Apart: Recognizing the Signs of Quiet Quitting
Quiet Quitting in Marriage: When One Spouse Stops Trying
What happens when one spouse stops trying—not because they no longer care, but because they feel like they’ve tried everything?
They’re still married. They still live in the same house. They may still take care of the kids, go to work, pay the bills, and handle the responsibilities of everyday life. But emotionally, something has changed.
They’ve checked out.
The term “quiet quitting” originally described employees who continued showing up for their jobs but were no longer emotionally invested in their work. More recently, that idea has been applied to marriage, describing couples—or often one spouse—who remain in the relationship physically while emotionally stepping away.
It can look like becoming roommates rather than partners. There may be little conversation beyond logistics, little affection, little curiosity about each other, and almost no motivation to invest in the relationship anymore.
And often, it doesn’t happen overnight.
When Trying Becomes Exhausting
For many people, emotional withdrawal is the result of years of feeling unseen, unheard, unsupported, or unappreciated.
One spouse may feel like they are carrying the household, parenting responsibilities, career demands, and emotional work of the family. They make the plans, remember the appointments, manage the children’s activities, handle the laundry and groceries, and still try to maintain the relationship.
Eventually, resentment can replace connection.
The painful part is that the other spouse may not even realize how far things have deteriorated.
One example discussed in the episode involved a woman who stopped speaking directly to her husband. Instead, she communicated through their child—even asking the child to find out whether her father needed clothes taken to the dry cleaner. This continued for an entire year before the husband finally asked if something was wrong.
That kind of emotional distance is difficult to create overnight. It is usually the result of countless missed opportunities for connection.
Quiet Quitting Is a Symptom, Not the Beginning
One of the most important ideas from this conversation is that quiet quitting may not actually be the core problem.
It may be a symptom of deeper problems that have been building for years.
Maybe there have been repeated attempts to connect that went unanswered.
“Do you want to go for a walk?”
“No.”
“Want to go out for a drink?”
“Not tonight.”
“Can we talk?”
“I’m tired.”
Each individual moment may seem insignificant. But over time, those missed bids for connection can communicate something powerful: You aren't interested in me.
Eventually, the person making the bids may stop making them.
They stop initiating.
They stop communicating.
They stop hoping.
And that's when emotional withdrawal can begin.
It Isn't Only a Women's Issue
Although the recent conversation around quiet quitting has largely focused on women in long-term marriages, men can emotionally check out too.
The reasons may look different, but the underlying need can be remarkably similar: to feel seen, heard, valued, and supported.
Men may feel unheard or criticized. They may feel that their efforts are never enough or that repeated requests and reminders have become a constant source of pressure. Over time, that emotional weight can also lead to withdrawal.
There can also be differences in how spouses experience emotional connection.
For some men, sexual connection can be closely tied to feeling emotionally connected to their wives. For many women, emotional intimacy may be built more strongly through conversation, listening, validation, understanding, and feeling emotionally safe.
When each spouse uses a different definition of “connection,” both people can sincerely believe they are trying while the other person feels completely neglected.
That disconnect matters.
The Question We Don't Like to Ask
When a marriage is struggling, it's easy to create a mental list of everything our spouse is doing wrong.
They don't listen.
They don't help.
They don't appreciate me.
They don't understand me.
And sometimes those things are true.
But what if we also asked a different question?
What am I contributing to the dynamic?
That isn't about blaming yourself for your spouse's behavior. It's about recognizing your own agency.
The episode encourages couples to begin by noticing what their spouse is doing right rather than constantly searching for what's wrong.
What if, for one week, you intentionally looked for the things your spouse does well?
What if you acknowledged them?
What if you stopped assuming that your spouse knows what you need and learned to communicate those needs clearly and kindly?
Small changes can alter relationship dynamics because marriage is a system. When one person changes how they communicate, respond, or engage, the dynamic between two people can change as well.
Finding Yourself Without Losing Your Marriage
Another important part of the conversation was identity.
Some people, particularly after years of marriage and parenting, feel as though they've lost themselves. They may have spent so much time adapting to everyone else's needs that they no longer know what they want, believe, or need.
But finding yourself again doesn't necessarily require leaving your marriage.
In a healthy relationship, individual growth and marital growth don't have to compete with one another.
You can rediscover your voice while remaining connected to your spouse.
You can set boundaries.
You can develop your own interests.
You can learn what you need and communicate it.
You can become more fully yourself—and invite your spouse to do the same.
There are, of course, marriages where abuse or safety concerns make separation necessary. This conversation is not about encouraging someone to remain in an unsafe relationship. But for couples dealing primarily with disconnection, resentment, and emotional distance, divorce isn't necessarily the only path toward a new beginning.
Don't Wait Until You Become Roommates
Quiet quitting is a warning sign.
By the time someone has emotionally divorced their spouse in their head, years of hurt may already be sitting underneath the surface.
That's why intentionality matters from the beginning.
The Marriage IQ approach centers on four cornerstones: Identity, Intentionality, Insight, and Intimacy. These principles can help couples recognize problems before resentment becomes permanent.
For husbands, that may mean asking: How can I show up for my wife in a way that she actually experiences as connection, validation, love, and support?
For wives, it may mean asking: Where have I been over-functioning? Where do I need boundaries? Do I still know who I am? Can I communicate what I need without blaming my spouse?
Neither question is easy.
But they are much more productive than simply asking, “Why won't my spouse change?”
A marriage doesn't become disconnected in one dramatic moment. More often, it happens through thousands of small moments where connection is missed, needs go unspoken, resentment accumulates, and two people slowly stop reaching for each other.
The good news is that couples can start reversing that pattern with small, intentional choices.
Look for what's right.
Listen differently.
Speak honestly.
Take responsibility for your own growth.
And, most importantly, don't wait until your spouse has completely checked out to start paying attention.
Sometimes the most important conversation in a marriage is the one you decide to have before either of you decides you're done.
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0:00
What 'Quiet Quitting' Means in Modern Marriages
Do you feel exhausted from trying to make your marriage work over and over again?
But no matter what you do, it just feels like it's not making any difference?
A few months ago, an online publication published a really provocative article called The Women Quietly Quitting Their Husbands.
0:17
Recently, Oprah Winfrey invited the author Monica Corcoran Harrell, along with a couple of therapists to discuss this growing trend among middle-aged women in long term marriages.
The conversation raised some really important issues like communication, resentment, sharing the household load, and more, many of which we've talked about right here on Marriage IQ.
0:40
But it also left Scott and I with some really big questions.
Is quiet quitting really the problem or a symptom?
And how did the couple get there?
And if one spouse is checked out, can the marriage still come back?
Today we're going to dive into our response to quiet quitting in marriage and add a little more to the conversation.
0:59
Speaker 2
Welcome to Marriage IQ, the podcast helping you become an intelligent spouse.
1:05
Speaker 1
I'm Heidi Hastings.
1:07
Speaker 2
And I'm Scott Hastings, welcome back everyone to another exciting episode of Marriage ID Heidi.
What does that mean?
Quiet quitting in marriage.
1:18
Speaker 1
The term quiet quitting was first used in research in the workplace.
Some people have a job, they're not quitting their job, but they're just really not invested in it anymore.
They show up sometimes, but they're not really there.
1:34
So more recently, I think in 2024, there was a researcher that started applying that to marriage as well.
It's a really interesting phenomenon.
Well, apparently there's a huge tidal wave of women in their 40s who are feeling really discontent in their marriage because there's no emotional connection.
1:56
They're carrying the bulk of the load.
They're trying to balance all of the things of life and feeling like they're doing it on their own and they're just deciding very intentionally to emotionally check out.
2:10
Speaker 2
So without divorcing.
2:12
Speaker 1
Without divorcing.
Yeah, they don't want the drama of divorce.
2:17
Speaker 2
Probably the expense either, right?
2:19
Speaker 1
Or, you know, the upset that it will cause the kids, but they're just like, I'm out of here.
I'm going to, in my own head, not be married, but just be roommates.
2:28
Speaker 2
So they're divorced up here, OK, because their husband isn't quite getting it.
2:35
Speaker 1
That's what they say.
And I know we have a lot of middle-aged listeners here at Marriage IQ, but we do have some younger ones too.
And I would say this is just a big warning that this is what happens when you're not intentional.
This is what happens when you don't know who you are.
2:52
This is what happens when you're just pointing a finger at the other person.
So now, early in your marriage is the time to really, really be very intentional about all of these 4 cornerstones and putting those in your marriage.
3:06
Exploring the Male Side of Marital Disengagement
Yeah.
3:06
Speaker 2
Totally agree, couldn't have said it better myself my love.
So look, I listened to this with you the other day.
3:15
Speaker 1
I love good points.
3:15
Speaker 2
And they had some good points.
I think Oprah did a fine job.
The problem here, though, is that Oprah is speaking to an audience of pretty much just women, right?
And so.
3:27
Speaker 1
Probably middle-aged women.
3:29
Speaker 2
They didn't really get the perspective of a man and I want to make sure and present that side of things.
So you mentioned these women are checking out emotionally because they're the ones with the burdens on their back.
3:48
They have to take care of the kids, they have to clean the house and they have to go to work.
3:52
Speaker 1
Bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan.
3:55
Speaker 2
And don't you ever.
3:56
Speaker 1
Forget you're a woman.
3:59
Speaker 2
Yeah, so and then the men just don't get it.
They're just totally out to lunch.
They don't know up from down as far as a household and their wives are just like, hey, look.
4:13
Speaker 1
This isn't what I signed up for.
4:14
Speaker 2
You're not giving me anything, Yeah.
4:17
Speaker 1
I think feeling burned out, they feel like there really isn't any room to grow in the relationship.
Or maybe they're growing and their husband's not.
And so they feel this great divide happening between them.
A lot of them talked about just not being who they used to be.
4:35
They'd lost so much of themselves in the marriage that they really mourned that loss of self and wanted to try to figure out how to do that without having the investment in the marriage.
Just being roommates is easier, I guess.
4:52
And they felt really unappreciated, largely.
4:55
Speaker 2
So I can see how that can be problematic.
You feel like you're doing everything emotionally for the children, help getting off the soccer practice, going grocery shopping, doing the laundry, and you still have a career and you come home and your husband's in front of the TV all night.
5:16
Speaker 1
Or out with his buddies or at work all night.
OK, So what quiet quitting looks like is pretty interesting though.
The woman who wrote the article talked about her mother quietly quitting years earlier when she was just 10 years old.
Her mother decided she wasn't going to even talk to her husband anymore and so she would tell the child.
5:38
Ask your father if he needs his clothes taken to the dry cleaner.
She would use the child as the in between and it had gone on for a year.
She hadn't spoken to him in a year.
I think they'd even slept in separate bedrooms.
And finally after a year the husband went to her and said is something wrong?
5:59
So he had not even noticed that she hadn't spoken to him until after a year.
He finally started to realize something's a little bit off.
6:07
Speaker 2
I would imagine that is in no way unique.
6:10
Speaker 1
That's probably true.
6:12
Speaker 2
This is not a diss on men.
I'm a man, you know?
We think differently.
Clearly, I enjoyed Oprah's presentation.
It was not balanced though, and let's be honest, she speaks to millions of women across the world.
6:28
Speaker 1
Yeah, and it's largely the women who read the article, and then they send it to all of their girlfriends who are in the exact.
6:35
Speaker 2
Same.
And they say, yeah, me too.
6:37
Speaker 1
I got on their Facebook page.
The vast majority are women on there agreeing with them and the men who come on to give their perspective to it pretty rudely, which doesn't help their case.
6:49
Speaker 2
Yeah, it doesn't help their case.
I get it.
So, you know, here we are.
This is something that's been going on for decades, really, actually centuries, to be honest.
Let's be honest here.
And I don't want to rehash history here other than to say men are very different than women.
7:08
Women are very different than men.
And that goes to back to our identity, right?
Our identity.
7:13
Speaker 1
Yeah.
So what do you say to a guy whose wife is emotionally checked out because she's tired, she's not going to take initiative anymore to run the household.
She'll take care of what she needs to with her and with her kids and she just is checked out as far as your relationship with him.
7:32
Speaker 2
And I think if I remember right, they really hit this pretty hard.
What are the women missing?
They're missing connection on a deep, deep emotional level.
They're missing out on feeling validated, feeling truly seen, heard, right.
7:51
They're missing out.
They're not feeling that from their spouse, their husbands.
7:57
Speaker 1
So how do you teach that to a guy who biologically isn't really cut out for that?
8:03
Speaker 2
They try to bring in some men's perspective, but it's.
8:05
Speaker 1
Like a sentence or two.
8:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, they didn't really address it.
But you know, coming from my side, from the man's perspective, which look, I can see why women would be very, very upset, frustrated.
8:18
Speaker 1
Absolutely.
8:18
Speaker 2
And even to the point where they're no longer upset, they're just, they're dead.
Emotionally dead.
8:24
Speaker 1
Yep, I have quite a few people I know in that case and I don't blame them.
I don't blame them.
If you were that way towards me, I would be really dissatisfied in this relationship.
8:36
Speaker 2
We've talked about this, we had an episode 31 from roommates to soul mates.
I think that kind of goes with this, but I think this is more particular in we're addressing an intentional act, not just drifting, but intentionally checking out of that marriage, mentally divorcing your spouse in your.
8:57
Speaker 1
Head, it's going really to that deeper level.
9:02
Speaker 2
So yes, roommate syndrome is the thing, and that can definitely lead to this.
9:06
Speaker 1
This is kind of bad, but this?
9:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, this is deeper than that.
This is like I am done with you, but I'm not signing the divorce decree.
9:14
Speaker 1
I feel like this is really interesting because this is a phenomenon that's specifically showing up for women in their 40s, so they're kind of towards the end of when the kids are going to be living.
9:28
Speaker 2
In the home, yeah.
They're, they're maybe, you know, teenagers.
Yeah.
9:31
Speaker 1
And they're highly invested in that.
But there's a big change coming.
Yeah.
What's going to happen when the kids are gone?
And it's almost like pre divorce maybe quiet quitting tends to look like 3 things.
9:47
The first thing is they're emotionally checking out.
The second thing is there's no initiative anymore.
And the third thing is they just totally lack any motivation to invest in the marriage anymore.
9:58
Speaker 2
Because they're not getting any return on their investment.
Yeah, right.
10:01
Speaker 1
Yep.
Not a good investment in time, not a good investment in emotional capital.
But it does make me wonder, Scott, yeah, this is really true for a lot of women.
I've seen it in a lot of people I know, but I've also seen it sometimes in men.
10:19
Is this just a women's issue or do you think that this is a man's issue as well?
Are there men checking out too?
10:27
Why Men and Women Misunderstand Emotional Needs
Absolutely, but for different reasons.
10:29
Speaker 1
OK, why are they checking out?
10:31
Speaker 2
Well, they don't feel heard, they don't feel validated, they don't feel supported.
10:37
Speaker 1
Well, that's the same reasons.
10:39
Speaker 2
Exactly.
10:41
Speaker 1
So tell me what's different about it than for?
10:43
Speaker 2
Oprah asks why aren't these men showing up for their wives in their marriages?
And guess what?
Oprah and millions of women across the world, they do think they are showing up for their wives emotionally.
If you were to ask these men if they're showing up for their wives emotionally, they would say yes.
11:02
Speaker 1
So they don't know what it means to show up for their wives emotionally to the level that women expect.
11:08
Speaker 2
Well, to the perspective that women expect.
Again, we have to go back to the differences between man and woman.
You have a different perspective on what it means to be emotionally connecting.
11:21
Speaker 1
OK.
11:22
Speaker 2
Now for a man, that connection is going to be more sexual.
11:27
Speaker 1
OK.
11:27
Speaker 2
If there is a.
11:28
Speaker 1
Lot emotional to men.
11:29
Speaker 2
Yes.
If there's a lot of sexual connection, then he feels connected.
For women, it's not necessarily sex.
It's it's going to be deep understanding, deep acknowledgement, validation, help and listening.
11:50
Again, we're not necessarily jumping in and solving problems.
We are letting you express everything that's inside, deep inside your heart and talking about it and letting you have that space, letting you feel by masculine strength while you are able to disclose your vulnerabilities.
12:11
Speaker 1
OK, so from a male perspective, for a guy who really isn't in touch with what emotional deep connection looks like when his wife's talking, is it just kind of like Charlie Brown's teacher blah blah blah blah blah blah blah?
12:27
Speaker 2
A lot of times it can be.
12:28
Speaker 1
Or is it like what is that like and are they thinking you're just not fulfilling me emotionally when sex isn't up to what their expectations are?
12:40
Speaker 2
Exactly.
Now look, I'm not speaking for all men.
I can't say that all men don't like this.
But I can say pretty confidently that at least 51% of men are going to feel this way to some degree, and that how they communicate and how they feel validated is through sexual activity.
13:01
Speaker 1
OK, that's really interesting because I thought of a couple of other reasons why men may be checking out emotionally and one was porn.
There's a pretty big correlation between being emotionally absent and being deeply involved with compulsive pornography use, so it does tend to numb the emotional availability of a man.
13:26
Speaker 2
Men also do feel unheard as well, and they feel perhaps nagged on.
13:34
Speaker 1
Yep, I know you've told me some of your patients who talk about that.
13:38
Speaker 2
Well, yes, I talked to a lot of men.
I am a man too and.
13:42
Speaker 1
And what do they consider nagging?
13:44
Speaker 2
Persistently being asked to do things that you don't necessarily want to do, that your wife wants you to do.
13:52
Speaker 1
Then why don't they just do them?
13:53
Speaker 2
Well, a lot of guys do.
13:54
Speaker 1
They need to be done.
13:55
Speaker 2
They need to be done.
They do them and they don't think much about it.
But again, it's over time that can become like little drips that kind of add up.
Drip, drip, drip.
OK.
And so the husband, and this is for Oprah, the husband feels this heavyweight, this emotional weight of his wife's reactiveness.
14:21
And sometimes he just lets it go.
But again, over time it gets his drip, drip, drip and it adds up over time until he might just either explode or completely check out of the marriage the same way that the wife does because the husband is not responding in the way that she would like to see.
14:45
Speaker 1
So maybe what you're saying is that he's actually checked out before she even checked out?
14:51
Speaker 2
It's very very possible, but I will tell.
14:54
Speaker 1
You but she didn't recognize.
14:55
Speaker 2
That when you ask these men, Oprah talked about this, where they asked these men that they were blindsided about their wife's dissatisfaction.
You mentioned it earlier too.
They're completely blindsided.
That's not a lie.
15:11
That's true.
15:12
Speaker 1
Yeah, until the suitcases are there, whether they're actual physical suitcases or he realizes how checked out she is now.
15:21
Speaker 2
As a woman, you're going what?
15:24
Speaker 1
How could you not?
How could you?
15:25
Speaker 2
Not see this for like the last year 10 years like.
15:31
Speaker 1
How could you not?
15:32
Speaker 2
See this?
I'm telling you, my love, the man's brain does not think like that.
Now you can say, OK, you guys are weird and crazy, I'm out and go live alone or go find another woman.
I don't know.
15:47
But I mean, this is how it is like, that's how men operate.
And I think it's important again for us to recognize again, getting back to the biology, the hormones, the Physiology, it makes a difference.
16:00
Speaker 1
I've also been wondering if there are men that emotionally are not mature as far as like we've talked before in an episode or two about little boys being told to stop crying, stop acting like a girl, stop being a Sissy anytime they show emotions and that some men are just emotionally stunted because of the cultural view of men being tough.
16:34
Is that maybe one of the reasons that men aren't showing up emotionally, or that they just haven't had a good example of what emotional connection from a man to a woman looks like?
16:45
Speaker 2
Yeah, that could be.
16:47
Speaker 1
OK, so she's saying he doesn't see me.
He's saying she doesn't see me because of the kids or because of her work or because of her parents or whatever it is.
16:58
Reclaiming Personal Identity and Agency in Relationships
So.
16:59
Speaker 2
So what do we do?
Pack it up folks.
It's been a great run, but marriage may not be the thing for you.
17:08
Speaker 1
That's kind of quickly going to the end of the row with honey.
17:13
Speaker 2
You know I'm kidding.
17:14
Speaker 1
Without making changes.
17:16
Speaker 2
I'm just about at this moment to invite people to have a moment of insight.
What if?
I know this sounds absolutely crazy, but what if I started working on myself 1st instead?
17:32
About talking about how you don't listen to me, you don't validate me, you don't support me, Which may all be true.
I'm not saying that's not true at all.
But what if the women who are upset at their husbands and quietly quitting?
17:52
The husbands who are upset at their wives and they're quietly quitting, but we don't have Joe Rogan to talk about that.
We have Oprah for the women.
But I think what if we just started thinking about what am I doing wrong in this relationship?
18:10
What is my spouse doing right in this relationship?
Well.
18:14
Speaker 1
I think that's maybe a good place to start, just noticing the things that our spouse does that are right.
18:22
Speaker 2
Yeah.
18:22
Speaker 1
Instead of looking for things that they do that are wrong, I mean you could just do that one thing without even noticing what you yourself are doing wrong.
I think maybe the issue is that quiet quitting is a symptom of deeper things going on.
18:38
Speaker 2
Yeah.
So it's not you're not jumping to that.
This is after years of marriage.
18:42
Speaker 1
Years of resentment, years of I'm making bids of connection to you and you're not even noticing them.
I'm saying, hey, do you want to go get a drink?
Hey, do you want to go on a drive?
Hey, do you want to go on a walk?
No, no.
18:58
Speaker 2
I want to get back to my that point with, hey, what if maybe I look at myself?
The most scintillating marriages start with the change in ourselves, right?
To change ourselves.
And some people say, well, what if my spouse doesn't want to change?
Well, guess what?
Your spouse is going to change.
19:14
They will change if you change.
That sounds counterintuitive.
19:18
Speaker 1
System has to change.
19:19
Speaker 2
But it will change.
The dynamics have to change, you change.
19:23
Speaker 1
It's always scintillating changes, but.
19:27
Speaker 2
And does it happens even if only one person is working the system?
But you know what I found that's very interesting talking to men and women is they both feel like they're working the system.
So, so I think that's the, that's why it changes because they both feel like they're working the system.
19:50
Speaker 1
What do you mean by working the system?
19:51
Speaker 2
Well, by doing their part, by being intentional, by showing up, by having insight to say OK, this is where I need to change here.
This is where I need to speak differently.
This is where I need to respond differently.
20:07
Speaker 1
So you're telling me that's what they do or that's what they need to do?
20:10
Speaker 2
That's what they feel that they're doing.
A lot of times they feel they're already doing that.
20:15
Speaker 1
So they feel like, hey, I'm working hard, bringing home money, taking care of the house.
I'm doing my part.
20:23
Speaker 2
Right.
Yeah, They feel like they're the good guy.
20:26
Speaker 1
Yeah, but they're not repairing after a conflict.
They're not talking through things where they might feel resentful.
They're not right prioritizing their relationship with each other.
20:38
Speaker 2
This is why I said, why don't we just start with ourselves?
Where can I do better?
Where can I?
Oh, but wait, you're the one that's making all the problems.
Oh, Oh no, O contraire women and men, your spouse does not see it that way.
20:58
Speaker 1
Look, we're both that way to some extent, yeah.
21:01
Speaker 2
We're men and women, we're oil and water.
And so we start with ourselves, right?
We start that change in ourselves little by little.
And it's working these 4 cornerstones, right?
21:14
Speaker 1
And that brings up the first cornerstone of identity.
Oprah and her guests talked for quite a while about women losing themselves, minimizing themselves, diminishing themselves within the marriage.
And that is a problem.
21:30
But.
21:31
Speaker 2
Do you know it's more of a problem?
21:33
Speaker 1
They are not using their agency when they're diminishing themselves.
21:37
Speaker 2
Yeah, they don't know who they are to begin with.
How can you lose your identity that's never been formed?
21:42
Speaker 1
Well, and they don't give their opinions because they feel like their opinions aren't listened to.
But ultimately they're blaming someone else for them not using their agency.
And that's taken me a long time to figure out myself.
You're big and passionate and bold and very expressive.
22:02
And so I have diminished myself a little bit with some parts of our communication.
And maybe in the past I would have thought that's on you, but actually it's on me.
It's on me to take responsibility for my own voice, to use my own voice, not to be diminishing myself.
22:20
Now, in some cases of abuse, I would say maybe they don't have full agency, but a lot of times I think as women we just do that.
22:31
Speaker 2
Yeah, I would agree.
22:33
Speaker 1
And so yes, they've lost themselves, but it's not necessarily the marriage as much as their own erasure of their self.
22:41
Speaker 2
Well, it's that anterior cingulate cortex honey in your brain.
It's much more developed than mine.
That tells you that you want to be part of a group, you want to be accepted.
And that means sometimes you adjust who you are.
22:57
You read the.
22:58
Speaker 1
Room.
Yeah, you read the room and you do what it takes.
23:01
Speaker 2
Yeah.
So these are a lot of these things we have to recognize.
These are biologic things, and that doesn't mean it necessarily needs to be that way all the time, especially in this day and age.
But we at least need to acknowledge it.
23:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, I agree.
And if there are parts of ourselves as women or as men that we're missing, then let's dive in and try to find some of those.
Again, the author of the article again was telling her mother was big, bold, I think Italian woman, very, very colorful.
23:32
And then she married and she just kind of diminished herself, ended up divorcing and had this renaissance of becoming who she was again.
And it just made me think, does it require divorce to have a renaissance of finding who you are again and finding what your strengths are, of finding your personality and letting it shine?
23:52
Or is that possible within the marriage?
23:54
Speaker 2
I think there are circumstances where that marriage should not be there, that marriage should not exist when or both partners need to get out.
But what we're trying to say is that number is way smaller than what the divorce numbers actually show.
24:13
And so we're aiming for those people who have these connection, emotional problems.
We're not after these people who have abuse and safety problems, so we're definitely not saying for people who are unsafe situations to stay married.
24:30
Speaker 1
So just because you are trying to find yourself again and find this renaissance of your identity, it's not necessarily the divorce that makes the difference there for most people.
24:43
The Surprising Truth About Post-Divorce Life Satisfaction
Well, look, if you're thinking about divorce in your future as a possibility, we're going to have you rethink some things here about divorce.
On the other side, what does that look from a scientific research standpoint?
And there were several studies I looked at this British household panel survey.
25:05
They studied people the last two years before the divorce.
Life satisfaction score went down.
I'm not happy with life.
It went down.
That makes sense.
We want to split up, right?
It plummets the year of divorce.
25:20
So the actual the 12 month period of which the divorce is happening, it goes down to the lowest and then it comes back up to a baseline after one to five years.
But at year 10 there was no difference at all from pre divorce life satisfaction.
25:43
OK, so 10 years after your divorce, you are no happier than you were in your bad marriage.
25:52
Speaker 1
Fascinating.
25:52
Speaker 2
Now that's just one study.
Oh they also compared these people to their married peers who never divorced.
Guess what?
The married people consistently had higher life satisfaction scores.
So this other study 787 people pre divorced to post divorce and they matched them to 1600 married controls.
26:14
They found the same thing, very low satisfaction scores in the year or two leading up to the divorce, extremely bad in the year of divorce followed by a rebound one to three years after divorce.
But this one, it never actually caught up at all with the pre divorce baseline life satisfaction.
26:36
So they never were as happy or satisfied as they were even in their miserable marriage before they divorced.
A lot of people say though this is controversial, but there is a third study that found pretty much the same thing by Linda Waite.
26:52
I mean we have these references and they all are saying the same thing.
You are not happier after the divorce.
Now it might take a few years.
Now there is a caveat.
There are 15 to 20% of women who did have a post divorce bump that stayed persistent, but the numbers were so small that we couldn't say if there's any long term significance in that.
27:21
But that's still only 20%.
And it only was women.
Men universally did worse after divorce.
27:28
Speaker 1
So I must be part of that 20% because let's see, I was single for three years before I met you and.
27:35
Speaker 2
Well, you got married again.
These are people who.
27:38
Speaker 1
Don't get married again.
OK, well, I hit the jackpot with you.
You were a great find for me, a great match for me.
27:46
Speaker 2
So thank you.
I want to add this in there because I think a lot of people are thinking of divorce as a possibility that might help them feel happier.
But the research is pretty sour on this, at least long term.
28:02
But you rebounded pretty quickly.
We just took off.
28:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think people that I know that have divorced and then haven't found a mate that they want to commit to after divorce, some of them have really looked back and said maybe I jumped out a little bit too early.
Yeah, you find that in your clinic.
28:22
Speaker 2
Oh, yes, yeah.
With some of the men I'm talking to, and specifically they talk about how their wife would nag them.
I know that this hits on a nerve.
I don't like that word.
A nag nerve and men will know exactly what I'm talking about.
But then they're all alone, and they realize that.
28:41
Speaker 1
They're depressed.
28:42
Speaker 2
Yeah.
28:43
Speaker 1
Then they come in for antidepressants instead of Viagra.
28:47
Speaker 2
Right.
28:48
Strategies for Preventing Quiet Quitting and Fostering Intimacy
Here's the thing.
We really do agree with so much of what Oprah and the women were saying, and we agree with what Scott is bringing up as a male perspective.
And we want to look at both because it's really important to us that we don't just feed a narrative that divides marriages apart.
29:07
We want women to thrive.
We want men to thrive, but we don't accept the assumption that marital thriving and individual thriving are competing goals.
We believe that they can coexist, especially if we've focused on our identity.
29:29
We know who we are and we take responsibility for our own development, our own happiness, our own becoming.
And then we're really intentional about the things that we do to prioritize our marriage.
29:46
And we have insight.
We can notice where my beliefs, where my actions, where my attitudes are impacting me negatively, and where they're impacting my marriage.
And also really prioritizing the intimacy that comes as an outgrowth of all three of those, right?
30:07
Speaker 2
I could not agree more.
30:09
Speaker 1
I think really what we're trying to do with our four cornerstones is keep people from getting to the point of quietly quitting.
30:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, and it's.
30:19
Speaker 1
Really sad.
30:20
Speaker 2
That insight really helps us stay away from the it's all your fault syndrome.
Because that's kind of what I was hearing is, hey, these men don't get it, you know, And look, and I'm not trying to downplay what women do.
30:35
They do a lot.
Like they talked about the husband who for four years, she would take the the kid to soccer practice.
He had no idea where soccer practice is.
I'm telling you, that's the guy's brain.
30:48
Speaker 1
Not an excuse.
30:49
Speaker 2
It's not an excuse at all, but that's where we go.
And I think maybe if we start understanding each other a little bit better using that language that both of us can grow with and not react to and start working some of the things that we're teaching here, educating week after week, month after month, year after year on marriage IQ.
31:14
So man, I want to speak to you before we leave.
I really want you to look inside yourselves.
What am I doing here that's not supportive of my wife?
I want you to dig deep emotionally.
What can I do differently to show up for my wife in a way that she can feel my connection, my validation, my love, my support, my strength, my masculine identity as a protector and a provider?
31:46
Think about it this week.
31:48
Speaker 1
And I'm going to talk to the women.
Now is probably a good time if what we've said today is resonating with you, to stop over functioning for everyone in your family.
Start setting some boundaries, come to learn who you are, reconnect with your identity.
32:08
Be able to verbalize what it is that you need, what you want, what you desire in a way that communicates peacefully.
Just being able to verbalize it in kind and FMDJ voice, low and slow without blaming anybody else, just saying this is what I need.
32:28
When we're able to do those things and communicate what it is that we need and be intentional about that, I think we can turn some corners on looking for the best in each other and trying to give this marriage a shot.
32:41
Speaker 2
Yeah, I love it.
On our website, marriageiq.com, there's a section, there's six of the most common causes of divorce and we have segregated them out and we have put episodes under each of them that correspond with that category.
32:59
So we invite you to go to the communication and conflict category and start listening to all of them on marriageiq.com and reach out to us.
Let us know how it's going.
33:09
Speaker 1
All right, everybody, we're glad that you've spent this time with us today and we hope that what we've talked about will give you a little bit of an opportunity to have some conversations with your spouse.
And until next week.
33:23
Speaker 2
They'll see you on another exciting episode of Marriage.
Thank you.
